I don't even know any more. I don't think that he has been sexually unfaithful, but I feel that he has been emotionally unfaithful. I also feel that if it continues then it would go to being sexually unfaithful.

Yes I do wonder about this now especially, because there have been all these things that I am finding out, that where never shared with me.

See, I don't think you are abnormally insecure. I think your insecurity is a reasonable reaction to his poor boundaries. I think your instincts are telling you something is wrong.

Would you classify yourself as an abnormally insecure person in other areas of your life? In past relationships?

Have you listened to this?

Also, do you have the book Love Busters?

I have never been an overly confident person, and in past relationships I was not this insecure, except for my marriage before this one. And that one did end in divorce and after that I found out he had been cheating. So that does not help this marriage out at all. I feel like I am re living some of the same excuse or justifications as I hear many years ago.

I predict you will much more secure if your husband stops all opposite sex friendships and you start 15-20 hours per week of undivided attention. If you start spending all of your leisure time meeting each others intimate emotional needs, you won't feel so neglected.

So we bought the LB book and HNHN book. We have just got started on reading the LB book. We have only gotten to the 2nd chapter where it talks about abuse.

Dr. Harley's description of abuse is not want you think of when someone talks about abuse. Now I have not even finished that chapter yet, but with just what little I have read, I am so ashamed of my self. I am become very nasty when hurt and lash out. I know that some of this stem from my previous failed marriage. I know that it does not make it right or ok to allow that to flow over into this marriage, but at this point I am not sure what else to do.

I really feel like my giver has given up and may never want to give again, and that my taker has taken control and not willing to let go. It also states that we should avoid not do those things to our spouse, we should protect them. I really feel at this point the only way to do that is to not be around him. He is not for that because he feels that I will not return. But all I know is that I don't want to end up hating him or hurting him anymore, but at the same time I don't want to end up being hurt more either.

I know he is a kind, gentle, caring person. I see that everyday in they way he treats others. It has just not been for me or with me in years, and now with all the situations that have arise, I am so full of pain, anger, resentment that I am very stand offish and cautious.

I see that he is making an effort in some ways like joining the forum and buying the books, and trying to talk and not shut down, but he does not seem willing to other things that people have suggested, like the scheduling of UA. We have not done that yet.
I guess I could make the suggestion, but I feel that for the last few years I have always been the one willing to work on or at us. I have been the one who is suppose to change, or to forgive and give another chance for things to be different. Then they never are.

I know that this is wrong to feel this way and that plenty of you will tell me so, but I feel like I have worked and bent over backwards and have always been willing to believe what he says then there is no follow through, so I end up getting hurt again. So now I feel that it is his turn and if he is not willing to work his butt off to prove to me or show me that he will have follow through this time, then what is the point. Why should I open up my heart for this if it is just going to be more of the same.

How come you haven't scheduled your UA time yet?

I guess on my part because he has not made an effort to do so. So, I am hurt by his lack of true commitment and feel like I should not be the only one trying this time. I know that this goes against everything I have read so far, but when your Love Bank is so empty, you just don't want to be the one to do all of the work again.

But someone has to go first. You're still being reactive instead of proactive. You can keep being resentful and keep your marriage the same. Or you can lead by example and attract him into the program.

You need to set aside your feeling and instincts, and let your rational mind control your behavior. You know it is a bad idea to construct tests of your husband's commitment in this manner. Follow the program and your feelings will eventually fall into line with your actions.

Skyrim,

It's a disrespectful judgement to say he has a lack of true commitment. You are assuming something about him. In his mind, he might be thinking that he's trying really hard. And if he thinks he's trying really hard and he feels you're being disrespectful to him, he might be thinking why try at all since he just gets bashed for trying.

Bad marriages have the "if he would just..." or "if she wasn't so..." It's a blame game where each spouse is blaming each other. Essentially it's a tat-for-tat or a "if you, I will" type of relationship.

It's okay for you to tell him when your feelings are hurt. It's okay for you to tell him when he does something or doesn't do something it bothers you. What I think YOU should do is go to him and tell him that you would like for the both of you to sit down and brainstorm some ideas for UA time this upcoming week.

So with reading the LB's book, and discussing the chapters read that it seems to bring up more issues and more questions. Maybe some of my questions will be answered later on in other chapters.

I guess I am just wondering with the POJA. From what I understand there should never be a decision made with out both of us enthusiastically agreeing. How is that possible in all things. What if a decision needs to be made and we are not together or unable to get in contact with each other?

Also we are suppose to think about each other, and what we might be doing or the choices we make and how each other might feel about that situation to help us make better choices, correct?

If that is the case, and supposedly we have done that and it still turns out to be the wrong choice, how do we fix that or know to do differently the next time?

For example: My spouse while away for training, made choices to go to have dinner after class with other class mates, including females. Which whom the single females, requested him as a friends on facebook, he accepted and now one of them has messaged him privately, but I mentioned that before. So while there he supposedly should have been thinking about me and taking my feelings into consideration. Now I don't feel he did that, because if he had done so then I don't think he would have been so social with the group with the females involved. Now he says he did think about me, and even now if he would have to make that choice again then he would still go out to dinner with them (x3), because he felt that he was doing nothing wrong, and that I would not have a issue with it.

This concerns me, because if he thinks that way and thinks that way about my feelings, then how can I ever feel that he will make good choices where my heart is concerned?

I have been hurt so many times in the past before this marriage, and so many with this marriage that I am so guarded that I am having a really hard time. I feel very overly emotional and sensitive to everything now.

I think you need to take a deep breath. If you spend the entire time dwelling on the past, you'll never be able to fix the future. Yes you've been hurt. Most of us have. Now is the time for you to start setting boundaries. Two him that you're not comfortable with the female Facebook friends. If he tries to argue with you, you just repeat that that is how you feel and you would appreciate him respecting your feelings.

Then the decision cannot happen. If you say no, it doesn't happen. If he says no, it doesn't happen. Marriage is like two people rowing a boat. Unless you both agree on even the smallest movements - you'll go off course.

PoJA is actually pretty easy to do. You quite simply never do anything without your spouse's full approval. Each idea needs two enthusiastic thumbs up votes to pass.



Don't do it, is the easy answer. Unless it's something your spouse is fully aware of.

But you raise a good point about how difficult it is to PoJA when apart. It's why Dr Harley encourages an integrated lifestyle where you are together most of the time. If the two of you have separate lives, then there will obviously be tonnes of independent behaviour that the other person did not OK. And it will hurt them.

For workplace stuff when you are not together, be radically honest with each other about what takes tends to take place during the day. Then you must put eliminate stuff the other person is not OK with. If a wildcard comes up, call each other.

It's so easy really. I am not married and do not even live with my boyfriend and we find PoJA a breeze. We discuss our plans so we know what's going on with each other even when apart. Of course we don't want to hurt each others feelings by acting inconsiderately and PoJA makes it so easy to think first, act second. I wish I had known about PoJA in my first marriage - it makes everything simpler.




Just remember that he had not even heard of PoJA then! He was entirely left to his own devices in making this decision. Sole decisions are much more unlikely to be wise ones than joint decisions. I guess we're all guilty of bad habits before we learn good ones.

Now he has access to learning PoJA he can be encouraged to only make decisions which take you into account.



Dr Harley says he still now and then makes PoJA mistakes without checking Joyce's feelings first. He'd be unlikely to make such a rookie mistake as dining with OS friends without checking with Joyce! However even with 50 years PoJA experience he does make small mistakes still.

I think an example on the radio was he threw out some old unused books from the attic without asking her. Turned out she still wanted them. So he undid his mistake as best he could by trying to get them back. Then, they agreed not to throw out things without checking.

In your H's case he could undo the social mistake by making sure these friendships he started without your approval do not continue. And he could make sure he doesnt agree to do this again.

How often are you in contact during the day? How aware are you of each other's movements. If you both communicate more, you'd both be less likely to act independently, I think.

Some may have to be answered with experience, with practice, or with communication from others who have been through this as well. Lots of us have dedicated immense time to learning the ins and outs of Dr. Harley's program and are here happy to help!

But the first thing I want to know is - is your husband putting in the time to learn this material, too? I want to warn you that according to Dr. Harley you have an extremely tough time ahead if you the wife are the one motivated to learn and he is not.


The only exception Dr. Harley says to make for the POJA is exceptions for "health and safety." An example would be an abused spouse getting help even though the abusing spouse is not enthusiastic about it - the health and safety of the abused spouse is at stake! Likewise in the case of getting help when your spouse has an affair, or an addiction. This kind of thing usually comes up in cases of abuse, affairs, or addiction, but I can think of other examples: say if you are seeking medical treatment for a child in the emergency room and your husband is not around.

Over time a couple will build up a "list" of agreements they've made, things that they can count on their spouse to be enthusiastic about. An example Dr. Harley gives is that for breakfast, he is always enthusiastic about Joyce making something for breakfast if she wants, so she doesn't ask him. But if HE wants to cook something for breakfast, she might or might not be enthusiastic, so he should ask.


You communicate! You follow the policy of radical honesty: "It bothers me when you do that." And now you know the other isn't enthusiastic, so you stop doing it, and you negotiate an alternative if necessary.


This should fall into the category of things that have now been discussed and he now knows you will never be enthusiastic about that, so he shouldn't do it.

I'll also add that there are many things Dr. Harley says would be a bad idea for a marriage even if both husband and wife are enthusiastic. Drug use would be one example. Spending nights apart is another.


He should now know that you are not okay with it, and what you need to know is, going forward will he now avoid things you are not enthusiastic about? If so, great! If not, then you have a really big problem for your marriage. Dr. Harley says that anything people carve out as an "exception" where they will do what they want regardless of how their spouse feels about it, will wreck their marriage.


When there have been a lot of violations of the policy of joint agreement in the past, a lot of things done that you were not enthusiastic about, it causes you to have a lot of past resentment built up, and that resentment will be brought to mind with each future violation of the POJA. And if your husband isn't even willing to follow the POJA or wants to make exceptions to it, your resentment will probably become insurmountable.

Skyrims, I wondered how you were getting on with an agreement regarding Facebook?

I've advised your husband to get rid of his OS friends on there because you are not enthusiastic about that. However there seems to some mixed messages as though you don't feel it's fair to ask it of him?

Let me reassure you it is. Even if you WERE enthusiastic about his having OS friends - they are not good for marriages and should be eliminated.

In an ideal world, what would you like to see happen there?

What is the plan?

Please read.
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage?

The workplace has always been something that he never really talks about. He may on occasion say if it was really busy or stressful, or if they had a meeting or carry in lunch, but never really much detail.

With contact during the day. We are some, but not a lot of that either. I guess one reason why is that over here the cell phone signal is not good at all. So you may not even have a signal for most of the day, but even when we have one or had a good one it was not that much. Maybe to see if something was needed on either one of our way home from work. Now he might text me to see if I am busy and want to have lunch. I normally text him much more through out the day, but not so much over here.

He is trying to learn the material, and seems very willing to give everything shot. Guess I am just overly worried at this point, with all the recent events being so fresh.






Guess this is what scares me the most. I feel that he may know to some degree, and I feel that he is not a malicious person and would not do it if he truly felt it would hurt me, but it just seems like he really never truly thinks about how I would actually feel. Like he said about the dinners, he did not think I would have had an issue with it, because he feel that I think the way he does, or something, I am not even sure how he comes to his decisions some times. But you are right now he truly knows and hopefully this will help him if he will actually think about my feelings.



I feel that this is where I am at right now, and that I am struggling to get past those feelings enough to allow him to make love bank deposits. I know he has said that he is sorry, but I also know that he has apologize in the past for things that he felt that he should, but not because he feels that he has done anything wrong. Also some times it takes him a long time to even say sorry for hurting my feelings. I feel that sometimes the only reason he has apologized is because I have badgered him into doing so. So they don't feel genuine.

Neither one of you is telepathic.

He is not going to feel the same way you do about things. He needs constant, clear communication from you in order to know what you want.

You seem to want some sort of intuitive empathy from him. Well that's achievable but only with clear guidance from you!

Right now, you two don't spend lots of time together and don't communicate about a large portion of your day. You're both working blind.

And what clear instructions are you going to give him regarding facebook?