I already have a keylogger, but, as he isn't living with me, it really doesn't do any good. I also can't install anything on his phone as he has it with him.

Every time, without except, that I have checked up on him, he is where he says he is doing what he says he is doing. I've driven by his mothers house, I've had others drive by the house, I've found his car in the parking lot of his job, I've checked up with family members to see if he has shown up when he says he will. He's told me what he is doing and I've made him send me picture messages to prove that is actually what he is doing.

OK, I understand a little better now. You've verified where he is during the day quite substantially. However he could be DOING anything in these places, even at work. Chatting online to an old flame on his phone, downing a bottle of scotch or making a drug deal, searching online for suicide tips - you have no idea.

Also he could be going out in the night or conducting a secret life online.

His sending you pics to verify stuff has helped you verify some things (such as where he is going) to a basic level, but I would stop doing that now.

Start acting as though you are not checking up on him so that he will start to relax more and give himself away. When he appears to believe you are not snooping on him anymore, that is when he will reveal the true reason for all this.

I would let him relax, then hire a PI and put spyware on the phone. Do you think you could work on getting him to relax enough that he would leave his phone unattended around you? Could you give him a phone as a gift?

Snooping involves not letting him know that he is being watched. If he knows he is being watched he isn't going to give himself away.

Rocketqueen,
That is interesting. He became a completely different person on that stuff. He began spending more time at the gym than a married family man should be. He met a couple women at the gym, but he met OW at a bar. I asked him several times to quit the testosterone, but he was convinced he was unhappy before he started that stuff. However, I didn't know he was unhappy until I confronted him about texting women at the gym. I am learning that is typical wayward.

Bp550,
I left my husband after he gave no indication he was ending it with OW. About 3 weeks after that he said he would leave OW if I would give him another chance. Unfortunately, by that time he had convinced me of so many terrible things about me and our marriage that I had gave up. Anyway, at that time he told me he had not taken testosterone for a month (he also lies a lot, so I'm not positive he quit). Now, six weeks after I left he is much more remorseful and realizes what he lost. So if he was telling the truth about quitting that crap then it seems it didn't take long for him to regain better judgement. Clearly still not the best judgement because he is still with OW. My point is, I've seen improvement after six weeks.

indiegirl,

He actually isn't aware of the vast majority of the snooping I have done. He still has no idea of the things I've found in the house, and he doesn't know how many times I have driven by, or had someone drive by. He's only aware of the one time I drove by and put something in the mailbox for him. He actually, after a while, started sending me picture messages unprompted when he was working on his mothers(who is a whole other issue)bathroom, and has actually continued to periodically send them to me without asking, like yesterday when he was at his dads and sent me a picture of the rainy backyard. I haven't asked for a picture in several weeks.

I doubt he would leave his phone unattended, because he honestly doesn't really carry it. He has always left his phone in the car when we go places(because I always have mine), but when he is home he leaves it plugged in in the kitchen where I have full access to it. The problem right now is I can't get him to stick around long enough to really accomplish anything. He wouldn't like a phone as a gift, as he is actually considering getting rid of his smart phone(it's a month to month plan). I've actually started encouraging that because he says he would rather have a "dumb" phone, which we could then put on the family plan we share on my side of the family, and voila, instant access to all his phone calls and texts.

LifeIsBetter,

My WH also claims he was unhappy prior to his starting the supplements, however, I've pointed out to him in the last few days that his account of the couple months before he left, is not correct. Meaning he isn't remembering them correctly. He has accused me of constantly being on the computer the last couple of months, and totally forgot that I didn't even have a computer the last month, he has accused me of one weekend when he was "working" outside, just sitting on the couch and basically being lazy all weekend, to which I had to remind him I was ill that weekend. He has no memory of any of this. He only remembers things in a way that aid him in justifying his absents.

I've never been a fan of the prohormone products because of the lack of clinical research on long term effects. At least with anabolic steroids like testosterone, there is a ton of research. So many people think that an over the counter supplement is safe. If a man is low on test, he needs a prescription under a doctors supervision.

The problem with ephedra products is you rarely get a pure product. You get extracts mixed in with a bunch of junk. The pure stuff will typically result in feelings of euphoria.

kilted_thrower,

exactly! This is also the problem with energy drinks, they don't just contain the caffeine they are marketed on, they contain all kinds of unregulated supplements!
My WH and I had a conversation early on where I was expressing my displeasure with the amount of energy drinks he was consuming, and he used the argument that they are "just like coffee", but they aren't even close to coffee because of all the extra crap in them. He also tried to argument(he works in a hospital) "they wouldn't sell them in the hospital if they were bad for you" to which I said "well they sell candy don't they??"

Not to mention that ephedra is illegal in our state, and in his position at the hospital, if he was every drug tested, he would be out the door.

I have a friend that was drinking 6 red bulls a day. He suffered a heart attack a month ago. He is 37.

I have told WH about things like that also. He is 43, the type of things he has been doing to his body are not safe for someone half is age. He also has a history of heart trouble in his family. I'll be 30 next month, and personally have a health condition where my heart rate is often extremely high, and I have to be carefully with anything that can increase heart rate at all, and I have said to him Well, what if I wanted to take ephedra and drinking lots of energy drinks?? he always say, well you couldn't do that, if you took one ephedra your heart would beat out of your chest, but it's ok, I can handle that feeling, you just cant...

Sometimes I just have to shake my head.

Bp, there are enough holes here to drive a MAC truck. For example, you said he went on these long 4 hour drives. You have no idea what he did or where he went. And you can't possibly know what he does at his parents home. He could carrying on a lively affair over the Internet or phone. People do it all the time.

I'm not saying I know what he is doing 100% of the time. I'm also not saying it would be impossible for him to be carrying on an affair even with the tabs I have been able to keep on him. I have a friend who's husband doesn't drive, she drives him to work every single day, and drives him wherever else he needs to go, and he was able to have an affair for an entire year before she figured it out. But, in all honesty, I'm quite sure the current issue is not an affair. I have seen more than one affair, I've lived in a house where an affair was occurring, and discovered, I've been cheated on, not by my husband. I'm not saying there isn't sometime of secret he may be hiding from me, but my strong suspicion at this point is that it's likely a couple of the things I've already discovered. Like the pornography. He still has no idea that I know about it, or that he never closed the bank account we had before we were married, or heaven forbid, maybe he cheated on me in the past. His behavior, although bizarre, doesn't add up for an affair.

I don't necessarily think it is an affair and am getting extremely frustrated. I can tell that something is going on and you don't know what that something is. In order to resolve this that has to be the first step, to find out WHAT he is doing.

Trust me I understand, and I don't mean to frustrate you. Sorry!

He denied the use of actual steroids, but I know he was using a booster from a health store. His affair didn't start until October although he worked with the person and it could have started sooner, I don't really know. I don't know what came first, the affair or the booster. But he had a complete change in personality starting a couple of months before D-day.

Not much help, sorry!

I can't remember, but can you afford a PI?

At the very least put GPS on his car and a VAR?

I wouldn't lay blame in the prohormone for his affair. Yes it would have increased his sex drive, his confidence, maybe even his aggression to some extent. But he was in full control of the decisions he was making. That and prohormone cycles are short in length: 4-6 weeks.

If he was doing full fledged steroids, you would have noticed easily.

Thanks KT! I always thought it was more wayward-alien-takeover than something he was putting in his body.

Unfortunately, no, I cannot afford a PI. In terms of a gps on his car, where would I find such a thing? and is there something I could put inside the car? Like under a seat? He's is very meticulous about the upkeep of our vehicles and I know if I put something on the outside of his car, he would find it.

What's a VAR?

Heard the show today! Dr Harley gave you some great tips and said to stop chasing him. Rather, let him come to you. And if he comes to you and apologizes you can take him back. He wasn't too hep about pursuing this marriage but he said it might work if your H chased you. He said "the ball is in his court."

What did you think?

I have to agree with Dr Harley about chasing him. I think that was great advice.

Honestly, I don't know what I think right now. That was a LOT of information to take in in a half hour.

One thing I have to say though, is I can't believe I'm the first person to marry a man who is obsesses, there have to be some people out there who have dealt with this and have a happy marriage.

I also have to say listening to my own voice on the radio is absolutely torture.