sky,

There are several things you can try to help stop the old behaviors. For instance, if you ever experience pain during a convo with your H you can simply say "Ouch. That hurt. I need a minute.". Then walk away. It, like anything, takes practice. Just try to be conscientious of your conversations and learn when to walk away.

I'm sure you are both aware that your communications need some work. So come to a mutual agreement that you're going to try to change how you communicate. It would also help if you both were able to be aware of when conversations turn bad. When things seem rather heated agree to separate for awhile. Come back later to get some agreement on when you can try to have the convo again.


As far as things of the past ... stop talking about them as they bring negativity to the R. You are aware of the mistakes of the past so instead of telling him what he did that hurt you tell him what you�d like him to do that is more to your liking. Make your conversations ones that are positive in nature.

This was a crucial piece of advice we received from Dr. Chalmers. Our prior conversations were very tit-for-tat and loaded with bringing up mistakes of the past. Removing the negativity helped us have more productive conversations. It stopped us from going round and round the mulberry bush.

If you want something to be different than give guidance on exactly how you�d like it to go down.

�I�d love it if �..�.

Skyrim,

That was a complaint I had about the forum here at first. I can see the value now though. My wife had built a life of not just looking at other men, but fantasizing sexually about lots of them, EXPLICIT fantasies. She was professionally dishonest and two of these fantasies materialized into PAs. The resentment was (is) HUGE for me. The first few weeks was nothing but AOs and DJs for me. I wanted a magic potion to get over it and I didn't feel anyone on the forum could give me that potion.

But it turns out that feelings really do follow actions. Study the friends and enemies of good conversation. If it's not pleasant, or looks like it could get unpleasant, come back to it later. Just last night me an FWW were having some IC and I felt a twinge of resentment (not even a full blown trigger) and I told her I had to step inside, I was feeling a bit down. She knows what that means so she won't pry anymore. That's just my way of saying if we keep going, I'm going to fall into my old pattern of being a jerk. The trick is you have to sense it's going bad before it goes bad. Often times that means not getting the issue resolved. IMO it's better to leave something unresolved than have an AO. Once all your conversations become pleasant you won't WANT to stop them with an DJ or AO and you should be able to gradually introduce more sensitive topics and resolve the issues bothering you. Worked for me.

In my M, I'm the extrovert. It does bother me when an hour into a conversation I realize I've talked for 50 minutes to her 10. I don't know why she has IC as her number one EN if she doesn't like to talk. She just likes to listen. I pride myself in my storytelling, but I do feel like if I didn't talk, we would stare at each other or talk about the kids for an hour. That conversation wouldn't be very intimate.

I know, easier said than done, but...Don't get angry and you won't be angry. Here's my trick: When we are having IC and I even feel the remotest possibility that it could get bad, we stop IC. I don't get in the car or go for a run to blow off steam because there isn't any steam yet. We just switch to another EN, like RC or SF. I say something like, "I really don't have anything else I wanted to talk about right now, but I could definately go for massage. What do you say we pour a glass of wine and break out the oil?". Then she might joke and say, "Hey Buster, you just want a happy ending". My mood goes from 0 to 60 in seconds.

If you wait till it turns bad, you aren't going to want to be in the same room as him let alone meet ENs. Then the next day, I'll send an email to my W expressing why I thought it was time to pause the IC and any outstanding issues I think we have to reolve. For me and my W, email O&H is much easier than face to face on sensitive topics. That way I can scrub it for DJ and SD before I hit send. Dr. H has mentioned email communiction between spouses on his radio program multiple times for this very reason. At first it seems silly, but the benefit is enormous. I'll take my chance with silly any day of the week over another AO.

MMM

The way you implement them is to implement them. You may not be perfect at first, but you use your intelligence to overcome your emotions and after a while it will come naturally.


Don't have unpleasant conversations. And when you feel offended then CHOOSE to not lash out with an AO or DJ.


You should find things that he likes talking about and make your conversations very pleasant. My H is an introvert and I am an extrovert. But we have learned to have well balanced, interesting conversations by sticking to topics we know we both enjoy.


Don't focus on any past mistakes. You don't have to discuss past mistakes in order to resolve current problems. If it is in the past, leave it in the past. If it is a current problem, then bring it up respectfully.

You might want to put any real difficult problems on the back burner until you get your lovebusters under control and you have better negotiation skills.


We really don't think it is easy to change, but we know that living like you ARE is much harder. You just have to make a decision to change your behavior. Allow your intellect to override your emotions. And of course, everything is easier said than done. That doesn't mean you can't do it. If you will only do things that are easy, then you will never grow or improve in life.

MMM, I wanted to emphasize that it is real important to choose topics of discussion that are pleasant and enjoyable for you both. What kinds of things are you talking about that could "turn bad?" If a date goes bad because of the bad conversation, then that sort of negates the whole point of the date.

The goal is to eliminate all lovebusters but to ALSO eliminate any conversation that either would find unpleasant. For example, I am a political activist but my H hates that topic. So I never bring up politics with him. He can bring it up to me and that is ok, but I don't bring it up. He knows to never ever criticize my son so when the subject of my son comes up he might make a positive comment. See what I mean? We avoid anything that could turn unpleasant and focus on being as pleasant as possible.

I agree 100%. In my case, it's not the topic of conversation that's unpleasent, there really aren't any topics we can't discuss pleasantly. Often times, when we are really close in IC, the resentment slaps me in the face because she had that same level of IC with OM1 and OM2. So as I sense my mood go south, I shift gears to RC or SF. Like I said works for me. I know sky isn't dealing with a WS and that type or resentment so my trick may not apply to her.

For Sky, it seems like the topic of converstion is the problem, so I think she should be able to identify the bad situation (specific topic) before it gets brought up and either stick to a lighter topic at first(like you suggest), or if nothing is coming to mind...switch gears to something else. There's more to a good date than IC, though it is important to get that one right or nothing else works. For me, getting it "right" simply means keeping it pleasant.

Can you remember what the topic was when you were triggered?

No topic in particular, believe it or not. Sometimes we're just on cruise control talking about everything under the sun and I get overwhelmed by how much fun we're having. Then it hits me that I'm not the only one she's felt this way about. At first I would get angry, but now I see it coming and move away from IC before I get there.

Notice I said "I would get angry", not "it would make me angry". That's MB in action. I control my anger and decide not to go there now. Many folks took a bat to me on my thread about a month ago...I'm a quick learner.

Sky, it really is your CHOICE, but you have to practice. Keep it pleasant.

So when you say don't bring up the past, what constitutes the past?


To me I guess the past events that I have been dealing with are things that have happen since this past June/July, guess I feel that those things are still to recent, but I could be wrong.

The past is anything that happened that before this very second.

That applies to mistakes of the past. If you want to talk about your family reunion in 1929, that is fine!

I would just start from today. Yes he had said and done things recently that hurt you and visa versa but do you want to start working on the present and future or do you want to take up time making a list of all the things that he has done to hurt your feelings which will leave him feeling overwhelmed and prob defensive. To me, the past is anything that happened yesterday.

If there are specific things that you would like to see changed/happen, then write down a list and the two of you can go over some boundaries. Keep in mind though that if every time you two are together or have time to talk and all you want to go over is how he has wronged you, he is going to start dreading time together with you because he's going to associate this time with his faults being pointed out.

My wife and I didn't like each other much when we started this program. She was angry, demeaning, aggressive, etc. I was passive aggressive, drunk all the time, and inappropriately flirted. About the only time we talked was during screaming matches in which objects were often broken. There were a couple times I slept in the car so we could be away from each other.

We are now very much in love. We didn't go back and rehash the bad and hateful things we had done and said to each other. We simply started meeting each others emotional needs and stopped love busting. Yes it was hard at first. But it got easier.

It's also a huge lovebuster when you bring up mistakes of the past. You don't resolve issues that way, you just make each other angry. A better strategy is to STOP doing things now that bother each other.

It really is not that easy just to stop certain behaviors or habits in the way you react to things, especially if you have been doing them for a very long time.

Also it is hard to just stop those behaviors and habits, when your spouse continues to do the same things as before that triggered them and brought them out.


I am sure that every couple is different in regards to MB and the program, but is there a time reference as to when things start making a turn for the better, or a suggested time frame for results?

What are you referring to?

So let me see if I understand what you are saying.

You claim it's hard to stop doing the same things you've done before.

You blame your spouse for doing the same things you did before.

Would you accept it if it were the other way around?

He can't stop doing what he did because you trigger him to keep doing what it was he was doing, and it's hard for him to stop due to your triggers?

Because that's how it comes across. It's hard to stop because he hasn't stopped.

You wouldn't accept that sort of excuse from him, so why present it?

You know that no one can answer that for you. I wouldn't set up a time limit to fall in love. If you told the vets you put in 20+ hours of UA time for six months, they might tell you to plan B, but I don't think you can say that yet. Keep working. I've seen his thread, it seems like he wants to have a happy marriage. You want one too. The tools are here. The motivation is already in the M. It seems like the only thing left is quality UA time without LBs.

If you and DS haven't mastered Lovebusters, the answer to your question might be...never.

No one said it was easy. But it is simple. The thing about habits is if they are giving you noon desirable results, then stop. If your spouseis doing something to upset you, you request that they stop. If they try and debate with you, you repeat yourself. If a conversation gets you to the point you're going to say something mean, you walk away from the conversation and return to it later.

My wife and I used to scream obscenities at each other. We'd break things. We'd say horrible things to each other. We started this program and really worked at it. We undid years of behaviors in a matter of weeks. Yes we'd have the occasional slip up but typically we were quick to apologize and correct ourselves. The two things we made sure of is we stopped bringing up the past and we stopped blaming each other.

We stopped assuming the other person knew something out should have known something. Our spouses aren't mind readers. We stopped saying "you know if they would just...". We didn't pout and or sulk.

Our being a good spouse is not dependent on the other spouse.

It's simple. Stop love busting. Meet emotional needs in the way that counts. Spend alone time together.

If my dad was able to quit drinking one day after 19 years of being drunk everyday. If I was able to quit heavy drugs cold turkey after years, then I assure you that anyone can quit old habits quickly. You just have to want to bad enough.

Yes, we understand this. This is why it is so important to stop it now. The longer you stop the behavior the more natural it becomes. You start new habits with new behavior. You just have to make a decision to do so.


He needs to stop it too.


It depends on how soon you make a decision to stop it. If you won't stop it, then things will never be better. If you follow the program you will start seeing and feeling a difference in about 8 weeks.

I think KT has given you some excellent advice here. Your husband doesn't 'cause' you to do anything. You decide how you react. The buck stops with you. Your husband has to do the same thing, but your responsibility is you.

I also think he has hit the nail on the head with the mindreading thing. You can be a bit timid in saying what you want Sky, but your husband is not a mind reader!

Take the FB thing. He came to you for guidance on deleting friends and you uhhmmed and ahhhed and said you didn't think it was fair for him to delete them. It would have been much clearer to say: "I don�t like these particular friendships. Delete them please." But your husband was left guideless.

I've read your husband's thread and I think he really wants to have a better marriage with you. He will listen if you ask!

He doesn't have your excellent instincts for spotting trouble and dangers such as not seeing the danger with the OS friends thing. But he has you for that. If you speak up when you spot a problem, he will listen and help eliminate the problem.

Not being open and honest, and refusing to talk. When he feels stressed he just shuts down. Goes into isolation mode. And this will even take place before he ever gives a conversations a chance to get started. If there is something that he should tell me or share with me, and he feels that it is a touchy subject, he will choose to not say anything at all. Then I find out later and that only makes things worse.