thanks for all the new answers, I confronted him about the flirting and said just don't flirt anymore or we will have big issues. He said he doesn't want to do anything with that woman, he's known her a long time and she's not good looking so he said he doesn't know why he said that, that he must have drank too much that night and he know's that's just an excuse. I told him not to do it again and that I don't really like the woman anymore but I respect her for blowing it off with hahahaha and acting oblivious to his flirting. That is the only woman he has really flirted with, he has no minutes on his phone (hasn't had any for a long time, but usually he call me at work on lunch break), we go together everywhere, so I should have nothing to worry about there. I just simply don't like the chick anymore since I don't know their real history lol.

and yea maybe I need to become independent, but I kind of have nowhere to start. I need a job, car and drivers license. I haven't had any "real" jobs, so getting a job at my age might be a pain with no experience. I've worked with my dad before and saved up money. He does construction work, and opened up a cafe this last month and I worked everyday for a month and then they shut it down, and since the business didn't make any profit I only got $100 paycheck for the month and I spent it all on a few weeks worth of bingo with me and my man trying to double it.

I think I'm mature though and know when I'm getting screwed. I'm a good person and know that I shouldn't deserve a man that has a drinking problem, but I want it to work out. He's a good man and we are both too nice, he just needs some motivation to change, and I've been working on that. He gives me a kiss every morning before he goes to work and says love you and comes home and asks how my day went everyday. I know he's a good man, and what would he do if I just gave up on us? He'd probably go back to slowly killing himself by drinking more.

I'm going to ask him to sit down with me and look at the basic concepts and the policy of joint agreement and policy of radical honesty and the basic needs and see what happens. I've seen about the buyers, renters, and freeloaders. I think we fall into the renters category on that...

If you think you can change a man 20 years older, then I think this is one of those things you are going to have to learn the hard way through experience. Best of luck.

yea

confused, are there any government agencies in your state that provide employment help, possibly vocational counseling? I know in Texas we have the Texas Workforce commission.

What you have to do is solve this problem - one way or another in life, you need to think about what it will take to support yourself. Can you get into school or get any training that will help you?

This is a very solvable problem that many, many people have had and have worked through. There are lots of people in the world working their way to a better career right now.

Your age is 20? Now is the time to do the things that will make you employable. You are in much better shape than someone 40, 50, 60, ...

I have a saying around here: "working on it" is code for "not doing anything." Most people on this site who say they are "working on" something, if you start asking them what specifically they are doing, what "work" are they doing, they can't answer, because they really aren't doing anything.

I'm a prime offender - I was "working on" an anger management problem for a long time here before I actually DID SOMETHING about it.

I guess this hit it right on the spot. I'm young and growing up with an alcoholic I saw the mean version of one and nice version of one. So I get with a man (which by the way before I moved in with him, I didn't know he had a drinking problem, I knew he drank, but didn't know how often etc), figure out he has a drinking problem but I still love him because he's not as bad as my dad is (or was, he hasn't had one of his episodes in a while). So that is correct. I guess I just have to learn the hard way. I know if I break up with him, it will be forever until I find someone else who I like, because I'm not a outgoing person and I'm not a people person. I had communication problems when we first moved in together and would have arguments I wouldn't talk out my feelings, I'd just give the silent treatment. and I didn't care about my looks or the way I dressed. (I used to be insecure I guess, I'd wear baggy jeans, long shorts, wouldn't wear makeup etc). He opened me up to become not shy or insecure and I admire him for that I guess. He helped me change myself in small ways. Now I wear makeup, dress nice (and even wear dresses, which I hated with a passion haha), and I'm not so shy to strangers, I'm still not a people person but I'll talk, and I can talk my man's head off at times which was something I wouldn't do 2 yrs ago. So I'm scared if I just leave and live with my dad again then I won't find someone for a long time and I'll start to be insecure again. Is there really no hope for my situation?

confused,

If you do break up with him, the people here on this forum will very gladly help you get set up to start a new relationship with someone.

We are in the "happily ever after" business, here. We are people who have learned how good a marriage can be and want to help other people achieve it. Some of us have lived through some pretty terrible situations.

Among other careers, at one point Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce ran a dating service, where they put the principles of Marriage Builders into practice teaching people how to attract someone and form a good quality relationship. Most of the customers in their service did not wind up with each other - they learned how to meet the emotional needs of the opposite sex and find someone they truly desired who they could build a lasting wonderful relationship with.

Look at those Basic Concepts and find out how willing your boyfriend would be to put those into practice. That is going to be the biggest predictor of future success with him.

As time goes by, you are going to change - both of you. Marriage Builders is about planning that change and making it a positive thing for both of you so you grow more compatible and happier together as time goes on. (For example, learning not to fight or argue!) But another kind of change is going to happen to you, that happens to many women: your emotional needs are going to change. The things you like and need now at age 20 are not going to be the things you like and need at age 30. Many men are utterly blindsided by the sudden strong emotional need of Family Commitment from their wives, for example.

As you look down that future road, you may find that your boyfriend is not willing to prepare for change - not willing to become that much invested. What you need is someone who will change and grow with you. If he will commit to the Basic Concepts and put them into practice with you, that is a great start.

You mentioned the book Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders... here is some very helpful material from Dr. Harley on that subject transcribed by fantastic Marriage Builder Pepperband, who has been a help to many of us on this site:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2332882#Post2332882

Here is some other fantastic help for you: the Marriage Builders daily radio program:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

thanks! that's the best answer, insightful and true about how everyone changes their top needs etc. And you didn't blatantly say just to break up with him that time lol.

To that I'm going to say, please use the tools on this site - we really do teach people how to get "happily ever after" here. Whether that is with your current boyfriend or someone else, you will be better equipped to decide after you study this material. It's like suddenly having a lot of tools - and first you have to spend awhile reading the instruction manuals. There are Dr. Harley's articles, there are the radio shows, there are the distillation threads where people like Pepperband have accumulated so much of the material on a topic on one place. There are the books, etc.

Come back and let us know what your boyfriend says about the Basic Concepts, okay? There are people here who can help you and who want to help you.

One thing I want to see is for you to end up in a relationship where there is no fighting. If couples do not commit to NO fighting (no demands, disrespect, or anger), the fighting gets worse. And living together relationships or marriages that began that way tend to have much much worse fighting than marriages that did not live together first. That's where most of the domestic violence and child abuse is. So you are already "at risk," so to speak, much more likely to endure bad fighting and unless he and you come on board together with the idea of no fighting and a relationship of extraordinary care, you are headed for a very unhappy future.

There is a lot of hope! You're young and you are in exactly the right place to kearn some great concepts and techniques.

Because I know its what Dr H would say, I'd encourage you to move out.

I'd also encourage you to keep the relationship light until the drinking is in hand.

But I'm not your mother and I realise you have some practical problems regarding independence and supporting yourself.

Its up to you to pick your next step and if you're just here to learn that's your call.

I never understood why living with someone before marriage is so bad. You can learn your spouses habits or quirks before you decide to try to spend the rest of your life together. I guess that's the only plus side to it. I understand it though I guess, it's against some peoples religion to live together before marriage. I wouldn't want to have any kids without being married though.

I talked to my boyfriend last night, we talked some things out that weren't resolved and we resolved them in a no fighting way. I told him that we need to spend at least one hour everyday together doing some sort of activity together (he has like 4 or 5 hours in the afternoon before we go to bed). That activity can be watching tv, watch a redbox movie, read together, just plain talk the whole time, or play World of Warcraft with each other. I also said no beer drinking during that time, that that time is devoted to just me and him. He saw how important it was to me I think and said it sounds like a good idea He was near tears since he knows we need to get close to each other again, and we hugged each other etc. I told him this time we have to really stick to it, it's not going to be just a week long thing. I also told him that we can live under the same roof but still ignore each other without even knowing it, that we need to show more affection etc like we used to. I read a quote that said a lot of relationships ends because once you have the person, people tend to stop doing the things they did to get that person. We are also going to walk for a bit together daily since that's a good way that we can just hold hands and talk about the day, stressful events etc, and have no distractions.

Does that sound like a good start? Sorry but I'm not financially, emotionally, or independently ready to just move out right now, and I want this to work. He's been talking about when income taxes come up this year he wants to buy a engine for a truck a relative of his gave him and teach me how to drive it and get my license so I can get a job and have a ride. If I get a job and decide that I want to be on my own, then I'll decide what to do, but that is like months in the future. I would hope a job wouldn't change anything between me and my boyfriend though.

Well, the thing is, people who've studied hundreds of couples who've done it and compared have shown that, on average, the problems tend to be worse in those situations than in couples that did not live together before marriage. It's not about it being "bad" - it's about setting up a situation that leads to success, not failure (and fighting).

Ask yourself how you treat a rental apartment compared to a purchased home and you will have your answer. When couples live together they develop a renters attitude rather than a buyers attitude. So when they do get married, that renters approach is validated and cemented. They don't change their approach when they get married because that is their mindset towards their relationship.

Ok I understand now about the risk of always staying in the "renters" position when you've lived together before marriage, but I've already made the mistake and can't go back and undo that. Right now I'm trying to get us into the "buyers" position. I know I shouldn't think of a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship as a marriage, but we have both agreed before that we would marry each other in the future, I've met all his family and the last time we visited his sister she actually called me her sister in law. I wouldn't want to marry until things were back on track and have no fights or unhappy elements. I still know that boyfriend/girlfriend is a totally different term, but what really changes in this situation after marriage if were willing to work out marriage like issues before marriage? If you aren't married then one would think your best bet is to find another man/woman, but if you care enough about that person and want a future with them, then you will try to fix the problems instead of just leaving even if you aren't married right?

That's not the same as being ready to buy, though is it? You're both still testing each other out and that is absolutely fine. That's what you should do before marriage.

Its just that the testing should be done on dates, not in the home. This will mean you are solving bigger problems than a 'just testing' attitude can handle.



No, I wouldn't say so at all. Dating relationships are much easier than marriage. In marriage there will be a whole lifetime of surprises and changes and challenges. Dating just involves pleasant times together.

If there are problems in the far easier dating relationship, then they will only get worse in marriage.

I would not advise anyone to work very hard on a dating relationship if there were problems and neither would Dr H.

Its another reason why living together is more trap than test.

You move in with someone you are not yet sure about......... Now you are obliged to fix whatever goes wrong? How can that be right when you weren't sure you wanted it in the first place?

Surely it makes more sense to get to know without doubt there are no problems you object to BEFORE starting a life together?

Then when you are sure, you can make a pledge to fix any problems that will arise in the future, together.

All married couples will have a lifetime of problems to face together:

Babies, sicknesses, job losses, bereavement, grief, old age, bills... Etc

It makes no sense to START with a bunch of problems when there are plenty on the way.

The problem should not be in your choice of spouse, but in life itself.

The amount of beer you say he drinks every day - even the scaled back amount - are massive. You may want to look into Alanon because even though you dismiss it, this guy has a HUGE drinking problem. Just because he doesn't act as bad as your Dad did, doesn't mean he doesn't have a drinking problem - he does.