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Some romantic ideas...

Next time you are walking by her, stop, kiss her neck behind her ear. stop.. continue on your way. Kissing doesn't have to be all mouths/lips!

Kiss her fingertips, just once, when you are talking about a non-sexual subject.

Touch her knee when you are sitting beside each other in the car, encircling it, but don't go any higher.

Kiss the inside of her elbow just before you get out of bed in the morning. Then get up.

Kiss her forehead prior to heading off to work.

Trace her jawline with our fingertips, and follow your fingers with your eyes. Then stop.

Get the idea? Treat her like a precious object, but then stop, continue on your way, without pushing anywhere into the foreplay zone. You are SHOWING her your love with actions, not just with your words. Cherish her.





Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
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Would you be enthusiastic about gentle (not french) kissing and kissing her in other ways, e.g. Eyelids, jawline, neck, elbows?

Would she?

If its emotionally painful for you to have sex without deep kissing then PoJA wisdom says don't do it.

However if you can both truly PoJA the above, then sex will make you both feel bonded. If it's unenthusiastic for either one of you - wait.

She may just need reassurance here that there's no time pressure.

Would she post?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Why don't you just take it slow and wait until she is ready for now?

I think so too.

Does she realise there's no hurry? Does she trust that the love bank will bring enthusiasm?

I think willing consent is too low a bar. Hold out for enthusiasm.

As with everything, PoJA is the key.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thanks for the great advice. For now I will take it slow. Holding out for enthusiasm may take a long time, but I believe you are right- that is what needs to be.

Just received SAA Tuesday and completed reading it last night. My wife says she will take a look at it as well. After reading it, I do wish we would have started with this book. HNHN made me feel more like the affair was my fault.


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Originally Posted by SEJ3
Just received SAA Tuesday and completed reading it last night. My wife says she will take a look at it as well. After reading it, I do wish we would have started with this book. HNHN made me feel more like the affair was my fault.

Exactamundo!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I really blew it last night. We had a date and I could not control my thoughts or anxiety.

While going through our phone records I found an incoming call from the OM, however the date was the day before DDay. Even so my wife had said she had not spoken to the OM, which is probably true- call duration said 0 mins, but her not telling me he called made me upset. His number was not on the caller ID so I know she had to of erased it, but says she did not know he called. Again this was the day before discovery.

We had made so much progress and now I feel bad. Just seeing his number triggered so many feelings I couldn't control myself, I brought up the affair and really did not give us an opportunity to enjoy our evening out. When we returned home, my wife said she would not speak to me the rest of the night, which she would not even answer the simplest question. She did sleep in our bed, but it was not a good night.

I feel I owe her a sincere apology, but I just could not contain myself last night.

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Originally Posted by SEJ3
I feel I owe her a sincere apology, but I just could not contain myself last night.

SEJ, your marriage cannot afford any of these eruptions. I completely sympathize with you, but you just can't afford it. When you feel triggered, come HERE and unload on us, never, ever on her. You can't afford the damage caused by your outbursts.

Send her some flowers and apologize to her. Make sure she knows this won't happen again.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by SEJ3
I feel I owe her a sincere apology, but I just could not contain myself last night.

That's a bum deal. But you know what you have to do it seems.

I've had a couple of times when I couldn't contain myself either. I thought I would pop. It never solved anything and I felt better only for a fraction of a second. The aftermath of each of those events was far worse then the anxiety I felt before.

Your W's reposnse is typical and acceptable when you treat her this way. Never again SEJ3.


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Ok I stepped out of the office ran to her favorite coffee shop took her home a latte and told her I realized how wrong I was. I apologized and asked her to forgive me, then told her I really want to get back on track and that I will not let it happen again. She gave me a hug and a kiss, told me that when I do something like last night it makes her take a couple of steps back, but she wants us to get back to the MB program as well.

I still remain hopeful, and closer to my wife than I have in a long time. She says the same.

Here is to a better day!

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Hi SEJ,

There are a lot of steps before a kiss. Many posters here know that the best sex is in the mind of which a kiss is a part.
Sex may even take over a day and a kiss should be delayed before it has effect.

You may want to try flirting then integrate this with haptic communication (hug, touch, hold and tickle). Please learn the art of the various massages.

There a range of sensitive places on a woman such as the neck and ear. Begin by a neck massage to ease out the tension, breathe on her hair and talk to her about the tension.

Eventually this may enlarge to a gentle hug and tiny kisses. Learn the technique of building tension. Change to the massage of toes, go near erogenous zones and tell her that a part of the foot controls her genitals (apparently it does).

Women respond to aural stimulus. Even your breathing will get her going.

Practice with petting a dog or cat and watch their reaction.

I promise you that my wife jumps me if I get the technique right!!


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Originally Posted by SEJ3
Ok I stepped out of the office ran to her favorite coffee shop took her home a latte and told her I realized how wrong I was. I apologized and asked her to forgive me, then told her I really want to get back on track and that I will not let it happen again. She gave me a hug and a kiss, told me that when I do something like last night it makes her take a couple of steps back, but she wants us to get back to the MB program as well.

I still remain hopeful, and closer to my wife than I have in a long time. She says the same.

Here is to a better day!

Great!

Don't ever tell yourself that you "can't contain yourself" again. It's a lie. You can. You need to learn how.

If you ever do this again, I'd strongly suggest you go through the relaxation therapy Dr. Harley recommends for anger management - you'll learn how to relax and think and problem solve when you are frustrated, instead of unloading and making your spouse miserable.

If you tell yourself that you can't do it, you are training yourself to do the exact opposite of what you need to do.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I was going to suggest doing some work on AOs too.

SE just can't afford another AO, however light. I think his wife is also reminded of past 'mean' behaviour whenever he does this. They'll never get anywhere like that.

SE, I can tell you that I used to have AOs that could be compared to nuclear incidents. As soon as I found MB I was cured - I discovered it wasn't effective and I was only hurting myself! I handled my plan A, exposure, and a ranting, unrepentant wayward without a single AO on my part. If I can do it in those circumstances, any one can.

I know Markos has had a similar benefit in eliminating AOs.

How'd you like to spend the rest of your life being cool and in control no matter what happens? James Bond style?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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So glad I found MB, I went from feeling all alone and that nobody could understand what I was feeling to knowing that there are others out there that know exactly how I feel,and have been through similar events. All of you that have taken the time to post, I just want to say thanks. You have helped me more than you know.

I will continue to put your advice into action. I completely understand that AO's cannot happen. I have decided to make sure I control my AO's they are NOT productive.

Thanks again for not letting me get away with anything. Your support has been just what I needed to make sure I am being the best husband I can be.


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SEJ3,

I am proud of your progress so far. You are doing very well !

Remember this : it is (nearly) impossible to fall in love with an angry man.

Markos and Prisca will be a great help to you in this area. I know he worked really hard to overcome this !

You can do this ! You must !!


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This was a bad weekend for my wife, her grandfather passed away. There was a lot of turmoil within their family, and I just tried to be there to support her. She said she was going to the hospital by herself when we got the call, but I arranged a babysitter and spent the day with her. When we got home she told me she was glad I was there for her.

She said she just wants things to be good at home while she deals with her loss.

This loss has really stirred up a lot of old hurts for my wife. When she was 12 her father left and she has not spoken to him since. This is very similar to her own mother and grandfathers relationship(her mom did not speak to her father in the past 16 years). She asked me yesterday to help her reconcile or at least get some closer to her relationship(or lack of) with her own dad so she doesn't have to live with the pain her mother is going through now.

My job as I see it - be the rock for my wife and support her any way I can.

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Which you are doing a very good job of. Keep it up!


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Wife is still doing the 15 minutes a day as Dr. Harley suggests to get over her aversion, she informed me that today we will sit down together and review the notes she has been taking during this time. She says she is ready for sex with no kissing.

Any advice before I get home and have this talk would be appreciated. Still no sex- no kissing but like I have said every other part of our marriage seems to be going great. She says she agrees.

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Originally Posted by SEJ3
She says she is ready for sex with no kissing.


What does "ready" mean? Part of MB is giving really clear communication.

Does ready mean she actually wants to have sex? She should not do anything where there is not something in it for her.

Some women want sex out of desire. Has she reached that point?
Some want to have their affection need met. Does she want affection to be expressed in a sexual sense? How?
Some women want to be admired and experience a sexual response. Is that what she wants?

I have a sneaking suspicion she is still in sacrifice mode and wants to do it 'for you'.

So when she says 'ready'? - ask - Why? What's in it for you? Why would it be good for you?

She should not be concerned about the relationship, sex is not the basis for love and you two are doing great.

Do you think emailing Dr Harley might help reassure her? She sounds as if she is getting a bit panicky regarding timescale.

Last edited by indiegirl; 10/23/13 05:47 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Indiegirl I believe you are correct in your assessment. It has been a month since we have had sex, and even though I try to assure her she should not feel pressured I feel like she is wanting to just for me.

Here is my problem I do very much want to have sex with my wife, but not at her expense. She knows how much I want this and is putting additional pressure on herself to get to the point of having it with me. How do you handle desiring something so bad and also convince someone else it is ok not to?

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Originally Posted by SEJ3
Indiegirl I believe you are correct in your assessment. It has been a month since we have had sex, and even though I try to assure her she should not feel pressured I feel like she is wanting to just for me.

Here is my problem I do very much want to have sex with my wife, but not at her expense. She knows how much I want this and is putting additional pressure on herself to get to the point of having it with me. How do you handle desiring something so bad and also convince someone else it is ok not to?


You are over thinking things. Your WW approached you. She wants to give it up. Make it fun for her. She is trying to reach you in steps. Pushing her back because her steps are not big enough is crazy.

This is an opportunity to work at reconnecting.

Last edited by TheRoad; 10/23/13 06:38 AM.
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