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Joined: Aug 2013
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Junior Member
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I'm pretty familiar with the MB approach but I am just wondering: If someone was abused as a child, i.e. physically, mentally, sexually, etc... . Wouldn't it make sense for that adult to get counseling, ministry, deliverance from the abusive childhood first, before trying marriage counseling or MBs? I unknowingly married a man who was abused as a child (he didn't even know he was abused for a long time) and I believe the AO and SD, etc... are a result of the abusive childhood and he is taking out his anger and "cry for help" on me and the kids. How can MB's help if the root issues are the abusive childhood? I believe it takes two whole people to make a marriage work. If someone is broken, it won't work no matter how much marriage building is done. I've basically told him, he addresses and gets help on the abusive childhood or our marriage won't work and is over. To be honest, my biggest concern is that he gets help for the kids so they will have a healthy dad. I've felt hopeless concerning the marriage.
Would Dr. H say I'm on the right path? And if so, can he recommend a counselor to address these childhood issues with my H? What about the Minerth/Meyer clinic? My H has read some of their books and knows he needs help but does not know where to go for help.
Thank you
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,549 Likes: 10
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I'm pretty familiar with the MB approach but I am just wondering: If someone was abused as a child, i.e. physically, mentally, sexually, etc... . Wouldn't it make sense for that adult to get counseling, ministry, deliverance from the abusive childhood first, before trying marriage counseling or MBs? I unknowingly married a man who was abused as a child (he didn't even know he was abused for a long time) and I believe the AO and SD, etc... are a result of the abusive childhood and he is taking out his anger and "cry for help" on me and the kids. How can MB's help if the root issues are the abusive childhood? I believe it takes two whole people to make a marriage work. If someone is broken, it won't work no matter how much marriage building is done. I've basically told him, he addresses and gets help on the abusive childhood or our marriage won't work and is over. To be honest, my biggest concern is that he gets help for the kids so they will have a healthy dad. I've felt hopeless concerning the marriage.
Would Dr. H say I'm on the right path? And if so, can he recommend a counselor to address these childhood issues with my H? What about the Minerth/Meyer clinic? My H has read some of their books and knows he needs help but does not know where to go for help.
Thank you I'm so sorry to hear about your H's abusive childhood. Many of us here have dealt with such issues and will sympathise with him. However, I would like to explore what you mean by "addressing and getting help" on his abusive childhood. What would you be hoping for here?
BW Married 1989 His PA 2003-2006 2 kids.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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I unknowingly married a man who was abused as a child (he didn't even know he was abused for a long time) and I believe the AO and SD, etc... are a result of the abusive childhood and he is taking out his anger and "cry for help" on me and the kids. How can MB's help if the root issues are the abusive childhood? Because the solution to angry outbursts is the same regardless of the cause. An analysis of the cause is usually just a distraction. The person needs effective anger management therapy which is going to involve learning to relax in response to frustration so that over time their brain can "rewire" the neural wiring to focus on problem solving when there is a problem, instead of going temporarily insane. That cure works whether the cause of anger was sexual abuse, physical abuse, a stubbed toe, or what.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Dr Harley has said many times that going to counseling to discuss one's childhood is a needless distraction from resolving present day problems. The best thing a person can do who was abused in childhood is create a great adult life. Bringing the tragedy of the past into the present just causes depression and is an impediment to finding solutions to current problems.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Joined: Jan 2010
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I read Minirth Meier clinic books during my troubled childhood.  I still had to do anger management when I grew up and got married. I'm not sure that clinic even exists any more, actually. Notice the wording in "deliverance from the abusive childhood" - if you compare them to what I said above about anger management therapy, do they seem a little bit vague? What does "deliverance" mean? Is it a religious experience, like deliverance from sin? The problems in my childhood weren't (primarily) my sin - they were the sins of other people. Most of whom still haven't been delivered. Whatever the problem, Marriage Builders usually recommends a step by step procedure for overcoming it. The procedure usually involves real action - not just a change of mind, change of heart, change of outlook. There is usually something to DO. Usually getting into the "causes" of the problems can keep you going for years without fixing the problems. I know that on TV shows people finally "let it out" and "deal with the pain" and have some sort of catharsis that somehow makes things better, but that approach isn't supported by the Bible and isn't supported by Dr. Harley's research. Incidentally, Dr. Harley used to run a large chain of mental health clinics in Minnesota. In addition to marriage counseling he did substance abuse and dependency, anger management, mental illness, etc. His experience is really quite broad - whatever the issue, he usually has a take on it that is action-based and effective.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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How can MB's help if the root issues are the abusive childhood? I believe it takes two whole people to make a marriage work. If someone is broken, it won't work no matter how much marriage building is done. I've basically told him, he addresses and gets help on the abusive childhood or our marriage won't work and is over. Marriage Builders works by cutting down to the core issue: the behaviors and habits that are destroying the marriage. In almost all cases, fixing these behaviors improves the participant as a person. For example, these three behaviors must be eliminated: demands, disrespect, and anger. Regardless of whether the cause is an abusive childhood or not, MB insists that the participant follow an effective procedure Dr. Harley lays out that eliminates these. If the cause is the abusive childhood, you'll find your husband is "healed" after going through this procedure. Incidentally, when you call your husband "broken," you are speaking disrespectfully of him. You are engaging in one of these behaviors yourself. These behaviors have to be eliminated in order to have a good marriage - and when you do, you'll find you are a better person for it!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Would Dr. H say I'm on the right path? You can always ask him. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.htmlBut no, he wouldn't say that talking about these pains of the past is the right path, even if it's done with a therapist. The right path is to learn to behave right and not use the past as an excuse for it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Godloves, I went back and looked at your thread about the problem in your marriage. Your husband is disrespectful, controlling, and abusive! http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2755374#Post2755374He's trying to use disrespectful judgments and demands to control and abuse you into converting to Judaism. I doubt he does this because he was abused as a child. But even if he does - the path to correction is still the same. Will he follow Dr. Harley's plan to eliminate demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts? If so, your marriage can thrive despite his childhood abuse. If not, your marriage really has no hope.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Here's something Dr. Harley has written about this subject regarding recovery from an affair. An affair is not apparently the situation you are facing, but the advice is still relevant: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311122#Post2311122An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. Same basic principle: an analysis of your abusive husband's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort discover why he is abusing and controlling you is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why your husband is abusing and controlling you: he would like for you to follow his religious beliefs! But the problem is his abuse, and you need to insist that he follow Dr. Harley's procedure to eliminate it or else hit the road.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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"As a clinical psychologist who has been in direct therapy with 50,000 individuals and supervised over 600 counselors, I have not found that resolving issues of the past does much to help people deal with issues of the present. In most cases I've witnessed, it makes matters worse because it drags the most unpleasant experiences of the past into the present. I know that my perspective is in conflict with many therapists who are trained to treat the past before they can treat the present, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that this approach is more effective than letting the past stay in the past.
My personal experience is that dredging up the past actually increases the risk of suicide and other dangerous symptoms of mental disorders. Another important reason that I am opposed to bringing up issues of the past is that it wastes time. When you could be forming an effective plan and putting the plan into motion to resolve an issue of the present, you spend months, and even years focused on the past while the problems of the present keep building up, eventually burying the client.
In your situation, I strongly recommend that you not waste your time talking about the past. And don't try analyzing your husband. I know that his affair was a terrible shock to your system, and you want to feel closure. You have been terribly disillusioned by what he did, but the best you can do under the circumstances is look to the future instead of the past. Don't discuss the past with your husband or anyone else for a while, and see if you don't agree with me that it helps improve your relationship and it also causes you to be more relaxed. Focusing on the past causes depression, while focusing on the future with an eye to making it successful causes optimism and gives you energy." here "Some counselors think it's a good idea to "resolve issues of the past" by talking about them week after week, month after month, year after year. It keeps these counselors in business, but does nothing to resolve the issue. In fact, it usually makes their poor clients chronically depressed.
My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present." Dr. Willard Harley hereAn analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. here"One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.
Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.
I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational. here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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In a nutshell, talking about the past will only bring it in to the present.
Dr Harley has only seen increased depression and unhappiness when an unhappy past is talked about constantly in the present.
It keeps some counsellors in business because 'resolving the past' is impossible without a time machine. It's a nice racket for them.
He needs to cure PRESENT day problems. Each day he gets up and decides to be abusive. That is a present day fact.
He needs to instead get up every day and focus on learning new techniques, such as anger management therapy.
Progress, don't regress.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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