MOVE, DAD. This is Dr. Harley's advice for the situation you are describing in this post.

Okay, now you know she is not enthusiastic about this, so don't do it again.

Write down her AO on a worksheet and give it to her for the week - she will probably not respond well, if at all, at this point, but it is imperative that you let her know this is a problem for you. It is imperative that you complain.


If you guys are not getting UA time in due to school, then you need to let her know you are not enthusiastic about school any more. Independent activities need to end until you are each other's favorite recreational companions.

Meantime, you need to keep the problems on the front burner. Any time she is demanding, disrespectful, or angry == worksheet. Get those complaints to her.

AND, you need to keep up your own efforts to meet emotional needs and avoid love busters. Are you going through the things Dr. Harley lists about affection, daily? Do you talk to your wife through the day?

I know just what it is like to have a wife not engaged with the program. You turn it around by continuing to respectfully complain and keep the problems on the front burner while making every effort to meet emotional needs and avoid love busters.

How badly do you want your marriage to succeed?


If she's down on the forum I suggest going straight to Dr. Harley. I was hoping a long time ago you guys would get into the coaching program so you'd have direct access to him as well as the coaching from the MB office to hopefully keep you on track. It sounds like you guys let the rest of life take over and then you show up here when things finally get to a breaking point, instead of keeping at it daily.


It's not an exaggeration to say she's not enthusiastic about you spending thattime that way any more. Even if she's expressed it disrespectfully, it's going to be vital for you to get that message (rather than getting emotional and missing it).


I'm sure she hasn't - and it's not likely to get better till the things above get addressed. If there's no UA time, if you let the problems slide off the front burner, if you're not making all the other efforts to meet emotional needs and avoid love busters - then this isn't going to work. If she's not enthusiastic GET DR. HARLEY'S HELP. If you want to keep your marriage, this is too important to let it go on for months and years without making sure you're addressing it exactly the right way.

BTW, if you're facing what looks like a hopeless situation and you don't see any solution --- antidepressants. Trust me.

They did move, but helpformom doesn't like her new job and wants to go back to her old job.

Okay, to clarify a few things:

1. HFM does NOT want to return to her old place of work -- too painful, too many triggers. It was I in my curiuos, overthinking manner simply wondered Dr. Harley's take on a FWS retuening to a workplace years after...after the affair and AP are done, gone. The main focus here is the possibility of a new jo that is located in the POSOMs county, and what are the limits we place on choosing a work environment, hours, salary (all things that would be to the benefit of our marriage and family), limits "dictated" by the life of the OP?

2. We want to literally MOVE -- not just jobs, but move outta this state. But not until our youngest graduates high school in 3.5 years. The kids have been through enough since 2010; we are not going to subject them/him to uprooting his life now. It wasn't his fault, he's not going to suffer consequeences for us.

3. We are aware that grad school has been a huge UA buster -- most likely slowed if not hindered our resovery time. But we're at the point now where HFM has one semester remaining; she'll be finished in May. I feel we now have to suck it up and finish. FWIW -- it's a complaint of hers about grad school/UA time...we were wrong to let it go for so long through her program, but now she's only 7 months from being complete...

4. We had a meaningful and solution-creating discussion regarding confusion over computer time.

5. The note about anti-depressants is important and under consideration by us both.


Markos, a general side note for you:

Isn't there any point where a line in the sand gets drawn 'against' the POSOM regarding rearranging OUR lives for his part in this? Is there any moment to feel empowered that a couple in recovery are not going to allow the OP to have power over or dictate the lives of a FWS/FBS? I understand there are consequences to an affair, but do those consequences ever become so...spiteful or burdensome for the recovering couple, rearranging their entire lives in reaction to the evil actions of the OP? After creating a new romantic marriage, and EPs, and just compensation...feels like decision of the recovering couple now revolve around the OP, giving that person too much "power" over them, no?

...I hope that made sense..

So if moving turns out to be mandatory to fix your marriage, you still won't do it because it'd be better for the kids to live through the disintegration of their parents' marriage than to suffer consequences?

My dad switched high schools his senior year, and maybe a couple of times before that. I think he turned out okay and wasn't too severely traumatized.


Maybe I'm not getting it, but if you're still even mentioning OM at this point that sounds like a problem to me.

MB is not all about rearranging your life in reaction to the affair. Unfortunately it sounds like most of the other material is being left out here.

But you haven't done that stuff, yet. It's all on hold, for reasons you've described above. And I repeat my earlier comment:
"if you take years to get going on this stuff, your wife will lose interest. Happens every time."

No matter how badly you want that to be true, you can't make it happen. He already has, and he will continue to do so.

The best thing you can give him is parents with a strong marriage. Not high school years.

The marriage is not disintegrating...although we've had some self-inflicted wounds: eliminating my AOs, decreased UA time due to grad school, no forthright solution to depression/anxiety concerns.

We've POJAd that -- we're simply not movinguntil the kids are out of high school (our oldest is a senior; youngest in 9th).

The only reason why we're mentioning "it" is becasue "it" is a consideration when pursuing new jobs in the area...it's like whack-a-mole...the POSOM could turn up anywhere, really, working for a union...commercial, residential, doesn't matter. So what to do?

Is it not just as important for HFM to be working in an environment that is not hostile and a CAUSE for her depression, anxiety? Is it not just as important for HFM to know if she goes back to ANY hospital, what EPs are in place, procedures god forbid POSOM were to somehow -- my luck -- be assigned there by the union...and HFM agreeing that should that ever happen, she's leaving that workplace immediately?

Please know I, we are struggling here for a viable solution...I am NOT asking out of sarcasm or petulance...

Thanks, markos.

I know you are looking for an answer here, but instead you have provided one... and the question is;


Why does Dr. Harley recommend that people move SEVERAL STATES away after an affair?


What you have going on is like a vet with PTSD electing to remain for any amount of time in the middle of the warzone, and attempting how to find normality again.


The plain and simple fact is, you can't find normality in such proximity, because these types of questions will continue to pop up.

What if you decide to remodel your kitchen? Due to proximity...


You get the point!


Until BOTH of you prioritize your MARRIAGE, these things will remain in a holding pattern until your marriage disintegrates.

That is a sacrifice strategy. You don't want to help with her homework, and she doesn't want you working on your brother's applications. So, you both sacrifice in a trade. That is not following POJA. It is no wonder that your LB balances are so low.

Dr. Harley has just written an entire book on this subject; He Wins, She Wins. Get this book and read it. Both of you need to change your problem-solving strategies.

Mr. E:

Thank you for the suggestion; I will purchase that book.

HHH,

Thank you as well for your note. Moving is simply not an option at this time. It just isn't feasible. Outside of that, it looks like there are no other good options, but only the 'best' of the bad options, or however that saying goes...

Have a good Monday.

Markos,

To one of your earlier posts:

Why are you alluding to HFM's self-exposing to her sister as a 'good thing' when it was IB and violated our POJA?

Thank you.

Problem is you refuse to move so no matter where you draw a line in the sand the OM's affair with your WW will always come into play.

Using that your child is half way through 9th grade as a reason to not move is pure horse manure.

Our children have suffered enough consequences due to the affair.

Adding one more by uprooting them (him) from their home, neighborhood, friends is not one we're going to add to the ones already done to them through no fault of their own.

I understand your reluctance to relocate; however, please leave it on the table, because moving can be a real beginning for a marriage in trouble.

Your child may suffer a bit in the short-term, but in the long-term, with parents who are in love with each other and a stable family environment, it will not be detrimental to the child at all.

My father was military, and we had to move multiple times over my childhood. Both of my sisters moved just before their senior years. In the short-term it was pretty tough. In the long-term, because my parents had a great marriage and kept family traditions each place we moved, the moves had very little detrimental effect on us.

Before D-Day, I couldn't imagine moving, not in my wildest dreams. But we moved with my H's job, and it turned out pretty fine. Better than we could have imagined. We discovered that where we live doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is that we are together and that we are in love with each other.

Moving away has been so very successful for recovering marriages that it really does outweigh the disadvantages to the children.

dad, there are some things that should just be done in general, and exposure is one of them. We don't fault a betrayed spouse for exposing an affair even though the wayward spouse is typically not enthusiastic.

Why would you feel that your wife exposing her own past affair is a bad thing? That would typically serve to make her more accountable.

Long Way:

Because of my moms divorces, I too moved alot as a child...and I know kids can generally be rather resilient.

And HFM and I have legitamately discussed getting out of Dodge ASAP -- but that is after high school. The education is too great -- one of the best districts in the state, even the nation. In the long term giving him (them) this educational foundation wil be for their benefit.

It will happen, it is on the table, but now is not the time.

Markos,

I guess I was bothered becasue it is something that we poja'd to NOT do...or, if we were going to do it, it would be together as a united front, exposing the ugly truth as partners, not IB.

If I should be seeing this as a good thing, then, I will accept your insights and let it go.

thanks.

It's my personal feeling that it is impressive that she would expose herself. To me that shows a willingness to be accountable.

If you feel like she misrepresented things you might go follow up with the relative she exposed to, but I would doubt that would be necessary this far down the road.

Markos,

I actually think it was a trigger for me -- stupidly, perhaps -- because it reminded me of the many times she told me she talked to the OM about "ending it", but I never seemed to be around for those phone calls...always happened when I wasn't present and I had to just "take her word" for what she told the OM.

So, I am wasn't worried about protecting an image or anything...only triggered a bit because it seemed like another important phone call that I wasn't there for, and had to take her word for what she told her sister, and it was a painful reminder.

I asked HFM what she told her sister, and she highlighted the details of the conversation and it was pracically everything and that if I doubted her she would get her sister on the phone with me to tell me what she told her.

It's all done and over.