Firstly, I know this forum about marriage support but I as the relationship with my girlfriend (GF) lasted over 9 and half years I hope my request for advice won't go amiss here. My GF is 30 and I'm 31. Apologies in advance for the long post!

The problems in our relationship began 2.5 years in when she had a PA. She admitted it, wanted to try again and we focused hard on working through it. For the next 3.5 years we then had a good, strong and for filling relationship. Unfortunately, I buried the pain from her PA and around 6 years into our relationship had a EA. I thought I had found someone like my GF who had not previously hurt me. After about a month I admitted it to my GF and that I was thinking about leaving. She persuaded me to go to relationship counseling where after 2 or 3 sessions I decided to stay. I got a lot from the 10 sessions we did but my GF seemed to really not get on with the counseler and did not want anymore sessions.

Our recent problems began perhaps 6 months to a year later (6.5 to 7 years into the relationship) when my GF began to start wanting children and to get married. At that time I was unsure about both topics, I felt very mixed over the idea of children and marriage was something that I never really saw worthwhile if we loved each other and were in a committed relationship. As the years passed we often discussed the children issue but largely had the same conversation (no arguments). I would say I wasn't sure because I genuinely wasn't. Once or twice she asked if we could go to counseling, an idea that I thought about but because I didn't understand how serious things were I said I didn't see the need. In the spring of this year she said she felt we were drifting apart. I didn't really understand why as to me the relationship seemed pretty much as strong as ever.

In July of this year she made her first attempt to leave and I finally realised the depth of the mistakes I had made over the last 3 years. Initially she said she wanted to leave because of my indecisiveness over children and marriage. As I now understood just how important these things were to her I said I would get married and agreed to having children. Previous to this, because we never sat down and had a conversation where she made it clear that not having these needs met would be sufficient to end the relationship, I had not comprehended how important they were to her. Although to this day she believes she did make it clear to me. During this attempt to leave she also mentioned she had been infatuated with a coworker 2 years ago but was over it now and had been infatuated with one of her current bandmates a few months ago.
I managed to persuade her to stay while we worked on fixing our problems and because she didn't want to rush things. At the end of July we started relationship counseling which continued weekly through August. During these sessions it became clear she felt emotionally distant from me and was no longer attracted to me. She seemed to become increasingly negative about our relationship as the sessions went on. I increased my efforts to show her affection by being more attentive to her, buying small gifts and arranging a weekend away, something that was suggested in counseling. Essentially I started to try and make some of the changes she wanted a reality. Of course we couldn't solve the children and marriage issue in such a short time, all she had was my word on that.

At the start of September she actually did leave but not move out. We continued to have counselling for a few more weeks, she would stay over at our house at least once a week and I received mixed signals as to what was going on. By now we had no intimacy beyond cuddling/hand holding which I let her initiate but I tried hard to keep all face to face contact light and enjoyable. Finally in our last counselling session before the counselor went on a 2 week holiday she admitted to having a non-sexual A with her by now ex bandmate in the spring but said it was now over. Over the next few weeks she continued to come to our house and stay once or twice a week. Finally in early October, feeling incredibly low and confused about the whole situation, I got into her phone and found texts from a few days previous in which she was coming on strong to her ex bandmate and saying that she left me for him. I confronted her with this and she admitted her A had been sexual. We talked for several hours, seemed to be making some progress and then, for some reason, she initiated sex for the first time in over a month. Given that she had said she was no longer attracted to me I took this as a good sign. Over the next few days I exposed the A to her family who all supported me. Unfortunately, a few days later she finally confirmed she would be moving out in a few months time. In the mean time she would continue to stay with friends.

From what I have managed to piece together, she started the A in the spring, probably tried to stop it in July but kept in contact with him and of course this failed so she left in September in a confused, foggy state to pursue him again. Even now she won't actually admit to leaving to chase him but says she wants to live alone. Some of her comments about him have been really confusing over the last few months. In July it was an infatuation she was over, by August she was saying that the infatuation was making her view our relationship in a negative way and by September she acknowledged the real problem was in our relationship and that she had made him into something of a fantasy in her head. In October she described her feelings for him as a crowbar that lifted her out of our relationship and then 2 weeks later I read those texts.

She says she feels incredibly guilty and ashamed of her actions, particularly the texts I read, and the pain she has caused me. So much so that in the last week since telling me she will be moving out she feels too ashamed to contact me by phone or meet face to face. We have exchanged emails. Even now she admits she loves me more than she has loved anyone and that we are soulmates. I take that to mean that she now sees me as a best friend.

Over the last few months I've done an extensive amount of reading trying to understand things as they developed. As far as I can tell she emotionally disconnected from our relationship probably 2 or 3 years ago because I wouldn't commit to the future she wanted, i.e. her important emotional needs weren't being met. Unfortunately, she did not tell me she was attracted to her coworker 2 years ago and was never really able to fully communicate how her important needs weren't being met. I certainly made the mistake of not listening well enough or understanding the situation until it was too late. But since July I have felt always one step behind what is really going on. I tried hard to convince her I could make the changes she said she wanted. She commented on my increased attentiveness and affection during August and September.

Despite our story being riddled with mistakes (2 PAs and an EA) we have, in general, had a very good and loving relationship, at least from my point of view. Initially we were young and made mistakes but over time we have grown together and are still very compatible and well matched day to day. Unfortunately, it seems we drifted along for the last few years and suffered from a break down in emotional need communication, in part because she has a really hard time being completely honest and hurting me.

So after all that any suggestions on what I can do? She seems committed to leaving and likely pursuing the A. As far as I can see the only option I have is Plan B, or something like it, and give the A time to fizzle out (if its going to) while I work on getting myself through the immense amount of pain and confusion I'm feeling.

Any advice is appreciated.

We say dating is the interview for marriage. You both failed the interview.

How many others have you dated before your GF? Do you live together?

We don't consider cheating in a boyfriend girlfriend relationship as a adulterous affair.
In a renter type relationship you aren't really committed to each other.
Here's a great article to read on this matter:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cohabitation.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6080_buyer.html

Please read this article about buyers, renters and freeloaders.
Before you think about trying to save this relationship, you may also want to think about this:
If you would find your dream car for an affordable price, would you then rent it for years and years? Or would you run to the bank to get the money so that the car was yours?

please read up on the materials on this site, so that you will be a better partner in the future.

And as to children, Dr. Harley does not promote having children without both partners being enthousiastic. On the other hand, women can have a biological yearning for a child and although you can fill your life with other fulfilling things, for some women, not having children can be as hard as it would be for most men to have a sexless marriage.

I should have specified that we lived together for 7 years.

I didn't post my situation to get into a debate about the semantics of marriage. I have known lots of couples who lived together and then got married and some who live together and didn't get married. As far as I am concerned I was just as committed and dedicated to this cohabiting relationship for the last 10 years as I would have been if we did marry. Hence why I asked for advice.

The affair I describe may not technically be adultery but it is just as painful when you have been in a committed relationship for so long.

Personally, I fail to see why not being married invalidates my request for advice.

It makes a big difference because you two havent takem vows to forsake all others until death do you part.
Nobody is going to debate you.
Boyfriends and girlfriends break up all the time.
They are renter relationships and always end because there is always something nicer to be found

Of course your pain is 100% real, and your request for advice is not invalid in any way. However, let's suppose it might be, possibly, too glib to dismiss as "sematics" the suggestion that there are some objective differences in the circumstances of married relationships vs. cohabiting relationships, and that these differences might influence the sort of advice that's most appropriate & pertinent to your circumstances. Don't you want to get the most pertinent advice for your situation, not just some one-size-fits-all boilerplate?

I'll bet you have a list of reasons why you never married your partner. Wouldn't you regard that list as valid, not as mere semantics? What's your list?

First, I'm sorry you have been hurt (and I'm sorry she has been too). It still hurts.

But if after 6-7 years and a man still doesn't know if he wants to marry you or have children with you, then a woman will make her exit. To a woman, it means he does not love you. Biologically, we have a lot less time to waste on wishy-washy commitment.

Yes, she should have broken up with you and moved on. Instead, she did the monkey branch - won't let go of you until she had another prospect. She's gone. Let it go.

Advice for the future? Date and date and date - and commit when you are ready. If marriage is just semantics, then why did you hesitate so much? Why did it mean so much to her that she looked elsewhere? Don't blame being "young" - if there were commitment issues at age 28/29, then it means you guys aren't committed. That's young, but you aren't teenagers either.

Did you date very many others before your now GF?

Have you seen this?
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Yes it is, we all get that.

And it does not invalidate your request for advice. I am extremely happy to give you advice on diagnosing and resolving this.

A HUGE part of the issue is your commitment level, and how you and your gf differed on the subject of commitment, wouldnt you agree?

Your gf (like most people) assumed you understood that MAKING a commitment (marriage) was commitment. She assumed you understood that NOT making a commitment (not married) was not.

We are also trying to help you 'get' this distinction. Although you summed it up pretty well yourself when you said:



You still couldn't actually DO it, could you?

Without a ring and getting up there and ACTUALLY doing it - there's no deal for her to abide by.

Why should she stop looking for the right person while you waffle and give only words? She is single until she is not single and someone has committed to her.



I'm sorry, but that is NOT commitment. It is coasting. Instead of feeling cared for and as though the commitment was deepening, your girlfriend would have simply felt more frustrated at the LACK of commitment shown as time went on.


You are only a candidate for her until you both agree to marry. If you really do want her back, I'd just be a nice guy and be the best candidate for her.

Plan B wouldnt work in your situation because there's no family home, no children, no disapproving family telling her to 'go home' when the 'affair' dissolves.

And it isn't an affair, he could simply be a better candidate than you and it could well go the distance.

There's no problem with turning this into a buyer's relationship within marriage if that's what you BOTH want. But I would consider a few things about her before you decide she is YOUR candidate for marriage.

A) she's dishonest and not great at communication, b) she has different goals to you - children etc c) she could find a much better match for her purposes i.e. someone who is really keen to be a father and someone who truly values marriage.

Does she really pass the interview for your wife? Only you can say.

Also you would have to completely forgo any resentment over her past interactions with other men. It's ok to feel she has some work to do with honesty but she was free and you had no ring on her. Can you do that?

I'd read the following article 'Finding the One to Marry'. In it, Dr Harley says being with someone a long time and having loved them does not necessarily a good candidate make.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5068a_qa.html

I'm not saying your relationship with her will never get from renter (live in) to buyer (married) status. It sounds as though you were respectful to each other when discussing conflicts and that you enjoyed each other's company. That's great.

If you can resolve some issues, you have a shot.

But not until you ACCEPT the differences between the commitment level of married and not married. Because that is actively hampering your efforts right now. Just as it did when you didn't get it before when she needed you to.

You are acting as though you have a right to her, which you don't and behaving as though your 'coasting' for several years without commitment has given you some rights to her. That must be highly annoying for her.

It's also making you misunderstand the plans here. It is not an affair and Plan B'ing her will only come across as neglect. Bowing out will only make you the most unattractive husband candidate if you want to court her.