I recently found out the all my worst fears had been confirmed. My husband had benn having an affair. He has known this woman for atleast 2 years the length of our marriage althought we have been together for 12 years, Jr. High sweethearts. He says his relationship became intimate this past summer. He doesn't understand my need to know everything about this woman. I want her to hurt just as bad as she has hurt me. Is this unusual? I want to actually meet this woman and ask her WHY? She knew that he was married, she was once married. She knew that an affair is the greatest pain that a woman can experience why would she do something like this. <BR> Another part i can't understand is my husband has been my only lover and there are sexual things that we discovered (I think) together he did them with her. I think if he would just had sex with her I might be able to recover but its like he left nothing for me. He said after a year in half of knowing her he thought he loved her but he also loved me. Then he contradicted himself and said he loved the things she did for him. I am filled with so much hate and anger I don't know what to do. The only thing I feel that would make me feel much better is to cause her one-tenth of the pain she caused me. I want to do this so bad I can't think of anything but this. I don't think I will begin to fucntion, begin to heal unless this happens. Help? <BR> Do I just let 12 years of friendship and love go that easily? My husband says he is very sorry he tried to keep it from happeing. But when I look him all I feel is pain, hurt, and ANGER. I don't think I'll ever be able to make love with him again. I know all I'll think of is this how it was with her? Is he comparing me to her? I mention these things to my husband and he says it wasn't like that but it hurts. I need serious help! Anyone that can help with this terrible pain please do!!<BR> Sincerely,<BR> In pain

I can see this is your first post to this board.<P>Let me welcome you. <P>You've come to a vey good place. The people here are both betrayed and betrayers and the occasional Other Person/Woman/Man (OP/OW/OM).<P>I, and many others can understand the hurt and the hate you feel. We've all been through it from one angle or another. Don't feel your alone. You are <B>definitely</B> not alone Your hurt will last quite a while... there will be parts of it that may never go away. Your hate will last a while too. Don't cover up your feelings... they are yours... no one can or should take them from you!<P>Now for some help. You have reached a stage, because your posting here, were you are reaching out. Let me first recommend to go to the home page of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com</A> and read as many of the articles as you can... Of <B>VERY</B> great importance read (from the left side of the home page) about <B>Plan A</B> and <B>Plan B</B>. There is alot of dicussion of how these appraoches recommended and espoused by Dr. Harley can help you... if not to save your marriage.. than to keep perspective and live again.<P>You need to do some self assessment too!<P>I would strongly recommend some of Dr. Harley's books to you... first and foremost "Surviving an Affair"... there are some explanations pn this site... but you've got to get this book. If you look in the "bookstore" pages there are other books you can get later... and many people here will make other good(Great) recommendations. <P>We here, can and want to be a source of help to everyone who is or will experience what we have. There is alot of love... and patience here... there is also alot of honesty.<P>Please come back often...<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

we all know the pain, hurt, anger- beleive you are NOT alone. its an issue that with me, ebbs and floews- sometimes its overpowering, sometimes it just sits there. you're here so you obviously want to wotk on your marriage- great. i didnt read your profile- are you and him in counseling together or seperate. i highly suggest therapy- at least for you. this can cause people to go nuts. i have also made some good friend shere and gotten e-mail addresses to help. come here to vent, question, or talk. if interested, try wwww.divorcebusting.com also.<BR>wwere glad your here, pull up a chair- a cup of coffe and let it all hang out. anger towards him will be counterproductive- confrontation will do the same. beleive me- i confronted both him and her and it did nothing- just kept their resolve to be together.<BR>just take care of YOU<BR>feel freee to say whatever- i know i do.your feelings are normal though- your right where your supposed to be.

Yes I am new to the site. I was reading through Dr. Harley's basic concepts and the steps to surviving an affair. I have checked his book out. I just feel like I am the the only one with this pain. While waiting on someone to answer my letter I read through other letters on the message board. But it still didn't seem to touch me and my pain.<BR> I found all of this out Thursday night, my husband left Friday morning and so did I. I started home to my parents but I realized if I went to the same state she was in I wouldn't be able to stop mysefl from finding out who she was and getting even with her.<BR> My husband said he needed to leave for a few days because he couldn't stand to see the hurt in my eyes. And the bad part of this is I want him here, I want him to hurt. YES I want to punish him. I am just not clear on if I still love him!<BR> In Pain<p>[This message has been edited by Spicey2 (edited November 06, 1999).]

I know it must be hard to believe anyone could be feeling the pain you are in now...<P>But in <B>all</B> honesty we all have!<P>It is a crushing, overpowering pain that makes both body and soul become numb. It eats at you for what seems an eternity. It's deep and heartwrentching. For me it was a feeling (for 3 weeks) of complete physical and mental paralysis!<P>Most of the posts you read today(weekends are slow) will be from the veterans... They've all been there... They (not just me) can recount with more vividness than they'd like... at "discovery"... the brutal anguish they too went through.<P>They haven't forgotten the pain... many still live with it today... with almost in as much intensity as when they found out.<P>This is a <B>very, very, very</B> hard time for you. But hey... you are loved here... <P>First of all take a step back. You are in a unique position many of us never had... You have the MarriageBuilders(MB) site to help you right at "discovery". Many of us (myself included) found this site after months of "Love Busting" with our spouses... i.e. yelling, screaming, arguing, and basically doing everything imaginable to push our spouses into the arms of the OP.<P>Don't do it to yourself!!!<BR>Don't hurt yourself!!! (it will be more than the hurt you now have)<P>1. Seek immediate counseling (if not for both of you... then for <B>you</B>!<P>2. Dive head first into <B>Plan A</B>.<P>3. As soon as you sense any form of depression (you may be there already, maybe not) get medication... the stigma is much worse than the benefits or side-effects!<P>4. This is a hard step.... but... <B>forgive yourself</B>... for anything you may have contributed to the circumstances... but <B>not</B> for him leaving... that was <B>his</B> choice!<P>5. An even harder step... in the more distant future... <B>forgive your H</B>... not to his face... but in your heart. This will give you the greatest strength / power / resolve to face your own future.<P>None of what I say is easy...<BR><B>It is not easy at all!</B><P>But that's why we're here... to help!<BR>It may appear that may of our posts are cavalier... ho hum... but underlying it <B>all</B> is support we need... for that part of us is suffering.<P>Oh yes...<BR>6. <B>Learn</B>... <B>read</B>... <B>check profiles</B>... and <B>post</B>... <B>often</B>!<P>7. a few prayers go a long way... so I'm going to say a whole bunch for you today!<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 06, 1999).]

Welcome Spicey2, But I am sorry to have you here. I discover the affair last March. I was in so much pain that I thought I was going crazy. I see you are a teacher, too. I couldn't even stay in the classroom, thank goodness I had enough sickday so if I couldn't control the crying and pain I could take off. He left to live with the OW two weeks before school started this year. I resigned I knew I could not deal with it all. After three months I am just now able to focus on life. The nights are long and lonely. I lay there thinking about what they are doing. I still burst in tears at the least little memory, but I am getting better. Everything Jim said goes double. Please find a counselor it will help you more then you know,plus venting or asking questions here helps. You make friends you know exactly what you are going through and they help pull you out of those depressed thought, bad ideas and give you lots of unconditional love and prayers. <P>I know you think know one knows the pain you have and are going through but everyone here has gone through the same thing, for some it was a little longer,, but unlike child birth it is a pain you will never forget, you just learn to handle and go on. <P>Weekends are a litttle slow and things pick up Mon. and Tues. but I know you will be in everyone prayers so hang in there and come here as often as you need for all the support we can give.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Welcome to the rollercoaster.<P>I have been posting under the name Bottom of the List, just changed it to Essyboo.<P>Please PLEASE do not think that your feelings aren't normal. They are so much like mine were and still are that it feels spookey.<P>Keep perspective. It has only been a few days. Don't lose heart, but this is just the beginning of possibly years of work. Prepare and decide if you want to do it, but don't worry if you still feel like giving up.<P>Does he want to save the marriage? If he even says yes take comfort, don't worry that you don't believe him.<P>I'm 18 months into this and 2 days ago I was ready to bolt and run, last night we made major progress. <P>I cried so much and so hard the first few days that I literally strained a rib cartiledge (probably spelled wrong, but to lazy to get a dictionary). I ended up having to have Xrays and go to a breast surgeon because doctors wanted to make sure it wasn't breast related.<P>I chose not to involve my family, I didn't tell but a few mutual friends that I felt could be objective. I still haven't told my family. It my case it was the best decision I made, but may not be for everyone.<P>Remember that this is not the cause of a marriage in trouble, it is a symptom and usually just one of many. I don't mean to minimize it, it is a doozy.<P>Work on the cause, not the result.<P>If he is willing, read His Needs Her Needs together. That book saved me and really helped my H.<P>Demanding him to tell you Why is usually non productive. There may be so many reasons and he may not even know.<P>My heart goes out to you. Pray Pray Pray, you may find strength you never thought you had, but don't worry if you feel weak, just remember that if you both want to reconcile you can.<P>The OW (Other Woman) will haunt you. It hard to understand how a man can detach one activity from another, but he is probably telling you the truth when he says he doesn't compare you. You two played completely different roles in his life and in the needs he was seeking to satisfy. His Need Her Needs explains that.<P>Good luck, God Bless and keep posting. I will look for you your.

I'm bringing this one back to the top.<P>I get the feeling Spicey2 isn't online right now and I want her to be able to find it.<P>My heart goes out to her so deeply that I find myself in tears just thinking about her.

I went off line for a little while. After reading about the pain that others experienced I needed time to come to grips with my own pain and to realize that I am not the only one that is suffering.<BR> My husband said he wanted to work on our marriage that he didn't want to throw away the history we had together away. But I told him the moment he had an affair was when he threw it away. As I stood there watching him I wonder how a person that had known me for 12 years could do this evil thing knowing how much pain it would cause. In some distant part of me I realized that he was also in pain but I rationalized that he couldn't be in as much pain as I was in.<BR> I talked with a close girlfriend of mine about the situation and she said she couldn't tell me what to do but if it was her she would leave. I think when I called her I was looking for someone to tell me everything would be alright but that's not what I got. In a way I am sorry I told her. I wished I would've kept it to myself.<BR> I think the reason why I am scared to see a counselor is because I don't want anyone to know the shame of this. I feel deep shame that I aloud this to happen (although H said it's not true). I truly commend all the people that visit and share their pain. Because until today I thought I was the only one. I also thought I was the only one that might go back to him. To myself I say I am a fool if I stay but what will I do if I leave? I've this man for 12 years. How do I throw that Love away?

Spicey2 -- Hi. I'm sorry that you need to be here, but this is the right place for you to be. With that said, I would like to comment on some the things you said.<P>Let me start at the end (your last post that is.) Turning to a friend for support is very normal. Probably all of us have done that. The problem is, many have never had to endure the pain of infidelity. The initial reaction is always to get the H*ll out. Most of us here, believed the same way . . . until it happened to us. We learn very rapidly, that things are much more complicated. There is no black and white, only grey.<P>Now, as for seeking a counselor. I am a man. Unfortunately I come from the generation where men don't cry. We don't ask for directions, so why on earth would we turn to a stranger and admit to them that we don't know how to deal with something.<P>When my W left me, I turned to a friend. Luckily he was very supportive, and very much against divorce. I love him very much for the strength and support he gave me. Still, about a week after my W left, I was so torn over the hurt and anger I felt, I broke down and went to a counselor. This was one of the best decisions I have ever made.<P>Since so many of our friends can never understand the pain and humiliation associated with infidelity, this forum can be a life saver. We have ALL been where you are right now. We ALL know the pain, confusion, anger and humiliation. We are ALL here for the same reason. . .To rebuild our marriages, to rebuild ourselves, and to seek out the love and understanding of others who have been in the same place. Come here often Spicey2. Ask questions. Vent when you need. Offer advice when you feel ready. We will help you any way we can.<P>God Bless

When I get really down I will allow myself to think that I should have left, but when I really think about it I know that if I had left I would have lessoned our chances of making it work.<P>Do you feel (not think, but feel) that the affair is still going, or is it over?<P>Is he normally an honest man?<P>Believe me, there will probably be lies. He will flip from being in a "anything I can do to help" mode to a "self-preservation" mode. Some of the lies will come from shame and some will be in order to not cause you anymore pain.<P>If you ask a question, be prepared for the worst answer possible or else don't ask it.<P>If you can, give him what he needs, but do not put yourself in a position of feeling degraded.<P>Please remember that you can always keep your dignity. If you handle yourself with selfrespect, then you will always be better than the OW and your H will appreciate and respect you for it.<P>I was dealing with a Husband Collector. That may have made things easier for me. She didn't want my H for keeps. That was never part of her plan. I knew this early on and also had the help from a dear friend who before she became a Christian had been a husband collector herself. She told me how to act concerning the OW in order not to "Play the Game with her". She told me every move the OW would make (and was 100% accurate). This allowed me to be one step ahead and not get any devestating surprises from her.<P>It killed me to see my H be so fooled by her, but eventually as I told him what she would do next and she did it he began to see the truth.<P>Many times the OW pursues a man because she feels the Wife isn't good enough job and therefore deserves it. This was "our" OW's attitude, which she actually admitted to me. (This isn't always the case, sometimes the OW has unmet needs in her relationship and has fallen into it as well).<BR> <BR>Take a deep breath and remember that this is just one more day. Please try to keep talking to your husband. Focus on you and him and let the OW alone for now. Find out what you both need and apparently weren't getting before. There is time to find out about her. Most of us do end up needing too, but right now get your husband back. Make the final choice be yours. Pray Pray Pray.

Oh Spicey2, you are not alone. Our stories are similiar in terms of H cheating and length of time we have been together.Mine, unfortunately ends with th ow very pregnant and due in January. Like you I am bitter, pissed,sick, sad, depressed, shocked, shattered and I can add more to the list too. I know what you mean about wanting to hurt ow, but I will let go of that rage and focus on getting myself well again. I also know what you say about sex, discovery with husband and the sick thought of H doing that with ow. Makes me want to throw up. My H wants to reconcile and work things out. Can I? Can you? Only we'll know the answer. Like you I have friends and family pressuring me to leave and go NOW. It will be my choice for all their good intentions. I still love H so much and am trying to get over what he did to me.But my over all feelings are pretty bitter and mostly sad of the loss of the dreams we had. I am here to support you as much as I can but I have to warn you - as opposed to some of the wonderful folks on this site, I am still in a very bad, hurting place. I can listen and provide empathy when you want to vent but I'm still angry and maybe not the best for you right now -- although, I'd love an angry person to vent to! I'll be around if you ask,if not, I'm in the backround with my fingers crossed for you. Feel free to look up my history, I started posted about 2 weeks ago. My H is also on this site. His name is trying hard. Here if you need us and good luck.

Just an additional comment or two.<P>You have nothing to be ashamed of!<BR>You aren't the one who has left!<BR>You didn't have the affair.<BR>You are a decent person... <BR>I (and the rest of us) know what kind of humiliation you feel... it's OK!<P>He, your H, is not evil either...<BR>But you are right in saying what he has done to you is evil!<P>There are many women and men on this site who can help you. Sometimes the advice of those who haven't gone through this first hand needs to be taken with more than just a grain of salt! Seek out the advice that suits you... but at least listen to everyone.<P>God Bless you...<BR>I hope we hear from you often. <P>Jim

I'm racking my brain trying to find something to say that can help you now. I'm trying to remember what helped me the most.<P>This is hard to admit, because I was and still am so hurt and bitter about what happened, but my H helped me the most in the beginning, and of course the Lord.<P>Let him try to help you if he wants to. He may do a terrible job, but let him try. Most men take pride in caring for their wives and family. That was how God made them. Most men also are totally clueless about how to do it. Keep that in mind and try to find the funny side to it.<P>The reason why most affairs begin is because there is some unresolved problem(s) in the marriage and the reason they are unresolved a lot of times is because they have never even been brought up. Many men (and I suppose woman too) have a hard time going to their wife and saying "Look, I'm not satisfied" we all know that most married couples would end up fighting. This is a form of an attempt by the man to protect and take care of his wife. As time goes on, many men seek other ways to satisfy their needs rather than by their spouse. This doesn't always mean having an affair, but many times it does.<P>If he wants to save the marriage, let him try to help you. This will make him feel like he is doing something for you, it will make him feel better about himself. It can even distract him from the OW if there is still any physical or emotional ties.<P>I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but this was kind of a personal revelation for me just now and thought I would share it.

First of all Thank you to everyone. This has really helped me. I want to try again with my H but I don't think its possible. I know I said somethings the I don't regret and don't think I'll ever say I am sorry for.<BR> Life, you said exactly what I've been saying to myself. I think this is really hard on me because I am usually the strong one. I am the one that everybody bring their problems to. I listen never telling them what to do. <BR> I know that there had to be a reason for him to cheat. Some need weas not being met. But I can't think of what it was. When I was questioning my husband about what happen. He didn't want to tell me all the gory details. He told me the basics. Not once did I think to ask him if it was still going on. He told me it happen early in the summer. He is 26 I am 25. The ow is 34 a divorcee with kids. I wondered how another woman that has been through a marriage be able to break up one. She knows how scared marriage is but yet she chose to destroy one.<BR> How can I work it out with H when all see is hurt betrayal. I think I might have to seek out a counselor for my own sanity but I don't think it will be this up coming week. I still don't think I could seat and tell a perfect stranger about my personal life (atleast not face to face). Once again thanks!!!

We all said things that were hurtful and probably don't regret. Just remember you are fully justified in quesitoning whether you even want it to work. Keep things in perspective though, please. It has been such a short time really.<P>If he is willing to keep any communication open with you regarding the affair, then he is (in my opinion) wanting to work it out.<P>I'm sure about giving too much advise, so I hope others will imput on this, but maybe you should ask him if it is still going on.<P>Remember that you are feeling a lot of things at once. <P>You mentioned that you said a lot of hurtful things to him already. How did he react? Did he react with anger? Did he get defensive? Did he become nonconfrontational?<P>None of these reactions really have more impact than any other, I am just curious.<P>Don't worry if you can't already pinpoint what needs were unmet. He may not even really know. Keep reading and again I highly recommend Dr. Harley's His Needs Her Needs. If you can't read it together, then get two copies and send him one. <P>If he is wanting to work things out, I think he will read it.<P>Please keep in mind that at this point, nothing is irrepairable and nothing is definite.<P>You have every right in the world to be devestated. Just remind him that your devestation is just another indication of your love. <P>My prayers are with you and I wish there was something I could do to take even a little of your pain away. It is something I wouldn't wish on anybody (except you-know-who)<P>Be true to yourself and try to keep a journal. Right down your pain, sometimes all you need is expression.<P>

Essyboo, Thanks! When I talked with him about it, it seemed to hurt him to tell me. At the time I didn't realize it but as I replay our conversation I remember. I think I will get the book. I know he hasn't been able to have a sexual experience with her since then because we moved to a different state but I don't know about telephone calls. <BR> Before he finally came out and told me the truth I told him I wanted to work on whatever was wrong(like I said I knew in my heart, I knew) I told him we couldn't move on until truths were told. He finally opened up. We discuss things that had happen in a friends relationship and I reminded him that I made the comment,"Hoe can someone cheat on their spouse and then lay down in the same bed and make love to them his reply was that person ws just nasty. I reminded him of this and said what does that make you and his reply was, "I ain't sh**. I know he is hurting too but to me my pain is first and foremost. Is that wrong? I want him to listen to my needs. I am very confused!!

I too am sorry that you are here. I have a message posted so I am very familiar with the pain you are experiencing. I am going to share with you something that my mom always told me. She said if you ever leave something for something you will end up with nothing. So as for your husband, all of the pain that he has put upon you will come back on him. The ow will probably do the same thing to him(if that makes you feel better). I was recommended to go to counseling and I recommend the same thing to you. Pray, because honestly the Lord is the only one that can do something for you. So pick yourself up and put on the whole armor of God, he may not be there when you want him but he will be right on time!

I too am sorry that you are here. I have a message posted so I am very familiar with the pain you are experiencing. I am going to share with you something that my mom always told me. She said if you ever leave something for something you will end up with nothing. So as for your husband, all of the pain that he has put upon you will come back on him. The ow will probably do the same thing to him(if that makes you feel better). I was recommended to go to counseling and I recommend the same thing to you. Pray, because honestly the Lord is the only one that can do something for you. So pick yourself up and put on the whole armor of God, he may not be there when you want him but he will be right on time!

I too am sorry that you are here. I have a message posted so I am very familiar with the pain you are experiencing. I am going to share with you something that my mom always told me. She said if you ever leave something for something you will end up with nothing. So as for your husband, all of the pain that he has put upon you will come back on him. The ow will probably do the same thing to him(if that makes you feel better). I was recommended to go to counseling and I recommend the same thing to you. Pray, because honestly the Lord is the only one that can do something for you. So pick yourself up and put on the whole armor of God, he may not be there when you want him but he will be right on time!