Thanks for sharing the list zhamila

Sorry, I�m not looking to offend you. I just wanted to point out some truths that some guys just don�t get.
I�m absolutely not saying �be a jerk and you will get laid�. It might work, but I could care less about getting laid. I�m looking for the same thing as everyone else � quality. And I see guys on the thread who are clearly struggling with even getting a date.
Just to summarize my position.
1. Yes, build some rapport and don�t push too fast. But also don�t be afraid to touch a woman. Like on the arm!
2. Take care of the physical attraction. Post your best pics. If you need to lose weight do it. If you are short, don�t try to date women who are too tall.
3. Know how to hold a conversation. Don�t say you are interesting and funny. Be interesting and funny! Practice talking to ALL people, not just attractive women.
4. Lead in the relationship, have a date planned and a back up date if that doesn�t work. Listen but also be able to suggest what you want. If she says she�s not interested that is totally fine.
5. Deal with women on YOUR terms. Two flakes, NEXT. Be your own man, have your own life, hobbies, career, goals. But also don�t try to shove it down her throat on the first date.
At risk of having my post flagged I will say MarriageBuilders is really good at building out the Beta half of the ideal man. All I am saying is there is another half.

Hope YOU weren't one of them...I'd feel REALLY BAD...

lol

Love your list, Reynolds. And I totally agree that MB is good at building out the Beta.

Physical attraction is important, even to us women.

I guess I'm not a very touchy-feeling-on-first-date person. In fact, I went out with Filmmaker again because he shook my hand after the first (no pressure for anything) - it was awesome. I get tired of men trying to touch me...again, because they think I'm 'pretty' - it feels invasive. Just me.

Love hearing your experiences, NED! I wish I had the luck to meet someone within the first four, and I am very happy for you.:D

It all comes down to being able to read the person you're with - each person should try to read the other's body language to figure out what's acceptable. Do I want to be groped, ever? No, of course not. But on a date with someone I'm interested in, I don't find flirtatious touches (such as a hand on the small of the back as you walk to your table) invasive at all. I want a man who's confident and wants to show me he's interested. I don't assume it's just because I'm pretty and he's trying to get in my pants. Or maybe I was just fortunate not to meet any of this type of man.

I only went on 6 dates before meeting my bf. I was extremely picky and I too went through periods where I just hid my profile because I was tired of weeding through the "not a chance"s. Just needed a break every now and then. I eventually learned to be more open-minded about certain things (for example, I loosened up my narrow age-range requirement) and to look for signs that the person contacting me had actually read my profile. I based my decision on whether to meet in person on the quality of his messages - whether he was taking the time to think about what he wrote, or if he's trying to engage in a meaningless "chat" via email. If it felt like the conversation wasn't easy, I knew it wouldn't be any better in person.

Totes.

Interesting stories. I really like this kind of feedback as I also have my eye out for a nice girl to date, but I find that my requirements eliminate the vast majority which is a little frustrating.

First, the girl must be a follower of Christ and live by a moral standard, second, she must take care of herself as I just don't find significantly overweight women attractive, and third, she needs to know how to dress in a way that shows self respect.

What I'm finding is women that don't seem to have a Christian world view, are tattoo'd up one side pierced down the other, aren't very attractive physically, post pictures that show way too much, or are way too young.

Another thing I've struggled with is that I haven't sought out anyone that didn't have kids because I can't have any more children (ex wife talked me into getting fixed), I don't want to deny a woman her own kids, nor am I typically attracted to women that don't want their own as I'm a family dude and I wonder how that will work with my kids and she doesn't want any.

Honestly it doesn't leave very many to go out with, not to mention, the ones that are left may not find me attractive because I don't look like Brad Pitt, nor act like him.

I have three times now bent on one of those standards and three times it was great getting some of my needs met (you know just dinner for two is nice) but I couldn't continue.

As far as the Alpha/Beta thing. I think Alpha gets a bad rap because many Alpha men are naturally that way because they are self-centered jerks. I think what women really want is a manly man that isn't a jerk: Someone that knows how to take care of himself and his family, is concise, a leader, intelligent, has standards he follows, but at the same time gentle, well spoken, considerate, respectful, and generous.

So I would love to hear comments, feedback, and suggestions on what I wrote above, but also want to thank the women on this form that took the time to write their experiences as it's nice to hear the other perspective.

ak

I would keep tabs on the fixing thing, they have on occasion been known to resolve themselves so to speak.

This is a bummer...I thought there were tons of quality ladies out there! It seems like it from where I sit, but I guess I haven't really been looking for ladies. I have a single friend who is sweet, modest, thin & Christian (and pretty!). She lives in my city, in case you're interested. But it's true, she gets hit on a lot - now I understand why! And she's hung up on a guy who looks like "Brad Pitt" but only bothers to see her once a month or so. I wish she'd get over him! Her H had an affair and left her after 30 years of marriage - it's been a rough time for her.

It's good to hear from the other side as well, ak1 - thanks for sharing.

I've often wondered if there would ever be an "MB daters" forum to connect MB-minded singles. Seems like it would be nice to meet people who already know the concepts.

Just remembered another one!

Dean - Handsome, Christian, family-oriented. Said his divorce isn't yet final - I told him I wouldn't date him until it was. He said he'd like to give it a shot now, and was talking 'exclusivity' - even marriage - with me, on the first date. Next.

I am currently on hiatus, as I broke up with the Artist last week. I need a breather anyway - it's been a busy 6 months!

Call me skeptical, but how could he call himself a believer if he is dating while married? It doesn't seem like he knew how to be single either if he was talking marriage on the first date. Sounds like he has some healing to do.

Your friend is a good example of what I'm talking about. While I'm not Brad Pit. I'm not fat or ugly by any stretch, and have a lot more to offer than Brad because I'm sane, faithful, and family oriented.

What is interesting is that many of the profiles mention that the girl is done being used and played and is ready to date a 'nice guy', but I find that a turn-off. It sounds like the pretty girls have more attention than they can handle.

I'm fine with it though, I'm not interested in games or drama. Been there done that.

ak

Totally agree, he needs to heal.

Yep, on the 'profile negatives' - I am always surprised when I see profiles with "don't this...don't that...tired of games...tired of lies."

Maybe I can get her to visit MB? Hm...I'll gently suggest it to her.

Yes, the pretty ones get attention. But whether it's from quality people remains to be seen. I don't need a bunch of attention...in fact I dislike it. I only want attention from "one."

(Sigh) One of the things I'm gonna talk to God about is, "How come people don't reflect on the outside what their inside (character) is like?" What an easier time we'd all have...and if our character improved, so would our looks! Yep, that's how I would've done it, if I were God. lol.

Yes. I had a "separated" women say "meet me" on POF. She identified as "Baptist"
I sent her a mesaage "I don't date married separated women"

Jedi points out something else I run into and it sounds like all of you run into it as well: The person that says they are a believer but doesn't act like it. My exWW is like this.

Anyway, I'm going to stay positive about this and use this time to work on myself. Our church is going through John right now and it's a great time to reflect on the "Lamb that takes away the sins of the world."

I'm also working on getting my house completely organized as I have a lot of little parts around for my various projects and hobbies. I wouldn't say I'm a pack rat, more like I enjoy fabrication and building things and that involves lots of tools, parts, parts for the tools, and various materials.

Right now I'm working on getting the garage completely sorted through, then I'll be building a custom snowmobile with my son. I'm using it to teach him how to weld, rebuild an engine, and designing parts that function well and look good.

Speaking of fabrication, I think that welding, building, and repairing is a manly thing, but I get the impression that some women think it's a little redneck or perhaps even nerdy.

That is one thing I really like about my exWW, she could see the potential that an expensive tool would afford us and was willing to spend the money. A lot of other women aren't really on board with dropping $2k on a welder.

ak

ak, have you considered a Christian online dating site? And my church is full of single respectable divorcees with well-behaved kids, isn't yours?

I have a profile on Christian Mingle, but it really hasn't turned up anything.... Yet.

I go to a pretty big church, but can only think of one divorced single lady close to my age, and I haven't approached her because it feels awkward whenever I talk to her. I think it's because we went though divorce care together and she saw me when I was a complete mess, when I was depressed, weak, and lacked a backbone.

I'm not like that anymore, there has been a lot of growth since then, that's the part of the divorce I'm really thankful for.

I figured that there would be plenty of women to date, but up here in AK then men significantly outnumber the women for some reason. If it wasn't for the co-parent deal and the fact that I have a fantastic job, I would probably move back to the lower 48.

Thanks for you thoughts though, am always open to suggestions. I would be delighted to have some company for dinner, hiking, and other activities. Who knows, perhaps I'll meet someone and have the opportunity to bless her with all I've learned.

ak

I don't have many single women in my church either

It's interesting, because I've heard this same phrase from several of my dates: ladies are on the lookout for the 'next best thing,' and unwilling to settle down. It's kind of a switch from our younger years!

The men who told me this were generally handsome, but also the ones who talked and didn't listen, or had other less-than-attractive qualities. They almost seemed shell-shocked that their looks & sex-appeal weren't helping them much anymore.

At this point in my life I've had my children and I'm in the middle of my career. I own my home & I'm doing well on my own. A gent has to be pretty special and unique to add value to my life (read: "Dr. Harley-esque"), and I'm not all starry-eyed anymore about cleaning house, doing laundry, and taking on more children. I get the impression that some are looking for a woman to take care of them (emotionally, domestically, sexually) but don't have much to offer in return. Several also told me they weren't interested in women their age, even if she were physically attractive - maybe they wanted someone a little more naive? Perhaps I'm just gun-shy, but this has been my impression of the "Why-Won't-Women-Settle-Down-Lamenters."

Any man who can meet a woman's top 5 ENs will seriously have NO problem attracting flocks of good ladies. I think Dr. Harley uses the phrase, "Irresistible." He's right!!

Remembered another one:

"Josh" - handsomer than his photos, talked non-stop. Had never been married, was in his 40s and had been a hard-driving career man. He kept touching me on the arm in that sales-y way. I asked questions, he pontificated. At least one of us was impressed with him. Next.

Also a funny: once when I was skyping with a budding-date-prospect, his screen kept bouncing...I couldn't figure out why until I realized he had been - ahem - pleasuring himself while I told him about my day! ICK. I was fully clothed, I might add.

...(shakes head) there are some things I don't think I'll ever understand...maybe I should start a blog? You can't make this stuff up!!