Correct. WH is OK with me talking to OW if it will make me feel better, but he does not believe it will. He believes that OW will be hostile and tell lies about the A in attempt to ruin any efforts to restore our marriage. Prior to changing our home phone number, OW called many times and left me many messages encouraging me to contact her to "get the real truth about the affair." WH said he had no idea what she could disclose that had not already been disclosed. We decided that I would not call her at that time.

Since then, I have been tempted to call her out of curiosity. What does she want to say to me?

When I was the OW, the BW called me and asked to meet with me. I answered all her questions about the affair.

Turns out, her husband had lied to her about many of the details and had encouraged her not to talk to me or my husband because "I would lie to try to break them apart" or "stir up trouble".

She reported to me that even after over a year of NC , he still insisted I was lying about the facts. He was (and probably still is ) gaslighting her.

I have the feeling from your posts that your husband is doing the same thing.

Sounds like gaslighting to me too. You should talk to OW and get that polygraph. Neither will make you feel better because there will be additional truths you have to deal with. But in time you may.

Do you think it's opening up a whole new can of worms to talk to her tho? WH wants to move forward, fix what is broken... Do I really need MORE facts than I have already, or than will come out during the poly? The truth is, when I have more facts, I can paint a bigger picture and actually visualize the two of them together. I don't know if I WANT to do that. ya know?

Another website I've visited compares affairs to jigsaw puzzles. Each fact and detail is another piece of the puzzle. The WS knows what the whole picture looks like and holds all the pieces to the puzzle. He gives some pieces to the BS, others to the OW, and still others to friends, family, and therapists. No one can see the whole picture except for the WS. The BS is given puzzle pieces in a trickle fashion, one or two, here and there, and ends up BEGGING for more pieces in a desperate attempt to see the picture as a whole. Once we see enough of the picture, we can make deductions about what happened, but the missing bits might hold the key to unlocking the puzzle.

I shared this analogy with my WH. Since then, he has openend up and offered me more puzzle pieces. For our anniversary on Oct. 12, I bought us couple necklaces that are shaped like puzzle pieces. When they lock together, the picture on the pieces form a heart. We wear them to remind each other to be open and share as many pieces as possible.

I'm happy to report that I can see the fog lifting from him as he is volunteering more and more information. He had been a lump on the sofa for about a week, but is now less depressed and has resumed his normal daily activities. He is playing with the kids more, his stress levels are reduced, and his angry outbursts have decreased. I know we still have a long way to go in this detox mode... but I can tell he's getting there. He called me from work last night and told me he was calling because he was tempted to call her and asked if I was willing to chat for a while until the temptation passed.

For those of you who have seen and heard all from WS's, can you evaluate some of the things he has been saying for me? My heart wants to believe him and that his words are sincere, but as you know, my judgment may be clouded with my desire for things to get back on track.

He told me last night that while he cared for the OW and believed he loved her for a time, he is coming to realize that she is not the type of person he would have wanted to be in a long term relationship with. He said that there are personality types that a are compatable with a person for friendships and other personality types that are compatable for long term loving relationships. He enjoyed the banter and conversations he had with her because they were compatable as friends. When she began the love languages, he was put off, but like a drug and a desire for the friendship compatability, he kept going back for another "hit," so to speak. As time passed, the humorous conversations decreased and the love languages increased. As an addict, he allowed the contact to increase in hopes that it would increase the friendship portion back to its previous state... but it did not happen.

After I discovered the A and things became more strained at home, WH says he reached out to OW even more for the friendly escape he once had. He was confronted with a woman who acted much like a jilted BS. She became jealous, began fabricating information and situations to increase his contact with her (faked 2 car accidents, said she was going to kill herself, etc.), and began to tell him lies about me -- that I was sending her physical threats through facebook. WH tells me his patience was running out and when I presented him with the ultimatum, it was an easy decision to make because the OW behavior was upsetting me. As of last night, WH told me that he believes that even without the ultimatum, he would have ended the EA within a month or so on his own. By the end, the humor and friendship had been replaced by obsessive love language and behaviors that he describes as "crazed." I have to agree because she began to stalk our families and harass us.

So the question, again, is for an evaluation of his words. Do you think he is being sincere? I think he is... Do you think he's just trying to make me feel better? I have thought his words to be sincere before only to have it pointed out to me that he was trying to manipulate me. What are your thoughts?

There is a saying that goes:

Believe nothing that a wayward says and only half of what they do.

Waywards can think they are being sincere.... at that moment, but the draw to the addictive highs derived from Any contact withe their affair partner will always be present.

Fog babble when he told you he felt he was going to consider giving up the affair partner in 1-2 months. The routine fix would still have been feeding the affair addiction.

I like that it seems he is trying, but get better guidance from the vets to assist inensuring you are not heading towards a FR, (False Recovery).

LTL

It's likely a little of both. There's indication that he's being sincere but he's also painting a pretty rosy picture for you. In a way maybe he is trying to "convince himself" of the things he is saying. As they come out of the fog, their fantasy falls apart and the words become more obviously sincere. Actions are what you should be concerned with. Words don't mean much right now. On the other hand, if he was saying things like "I never loved her" that's a red flag. So, you got that going for you.

And I picked up what LTL saw:

That's still pretty foggy...claiming he would have backed out on his own in 1-2 months. More likely, his medical condition would be cleared and you would have a full blown PA on your hands.

Hi BB,

I am glad to read that you will be having a polygraph done. Until that time, I wouldn't engage WH in discussion about the affair details. If he volunteers information, I would make mental notes of what he says (or write them down if that works better for you) but I would not keep rehashing stuff...it will wear you down. I did not scheduled a polygraph after Dday1 but I let my WH know that I had nothing to say to him because I was still putting the pieces together...this made him sweat and the truth trickled out the more I ignored him. You don't have to ignore your WH, but I would ignore him as far as engaging in A talk until you either have the poly or make contact with the BH. Plan A and take care of yourself.

I made contact with the BH three days post Dday and all hell broke lose after that. Before that WH (like the typical WS) was trying to do damage control. I also did speak to OW1 on two occassions but it was AFTER I had exposed. I personally would contact a OP but I would wait until you have the poly and have made contact with the BS.

Right now you are taking the word of a known liar. Sorry but that is the truth. Did OW tell YOU she was going to kill herself or is that per WH? You can't take his word for anything. If you didn't not hear this (or anything else really) directly from OW, take it with a grain of salt. And if you did...people usually don't threaten something as dire as suicide over an EA. OW could be a bunny boiler but it is more likely that the affair was more than just an EA or there were promises to leave you for her.

I know what you wrote about your WH's medical condition. Oral could have been one way, with her as the receiver...and he still could have been the receiver with his pants on. I am not trying to upset you but there are still ways to make sexual contact beyond kissing. Until you have the poly and contact with the BH, anything is possible. Make it happen!! You need this resolution ASAP.

"Since then, I have been tempted to call her out of curiosity. What does she want to say to me?"

I think that would be a great idea. The OW in my situation gave me a lot of information so I would certainly recommend doing this.

I get that you want to believe him. And I'm sure he knows it. He has a history of playing games. Can you relieve believe yourself at this point? You have to stop using your heart and use your head - belief and your heart will have to wait for later.

BH, remember what I told you about how a WS will throw you crumbs in an effort to make you think you have the full truth now so you will cancel the polygraph? He may or may not be sincere, but a wayward is 100% selfish and is only going to tell you what is to his benefit.

But I do think it is a good idea to call the OW and get as much information as possible. Ad do not allow that skank to give you marital advice. (They usually try!)

That he is a mgr at Lowe's may be a lie too. A mgr is not going to have blocked calls at his store. Lowe's and Home Depot have the store mgr and asst mgr names (sometimes pictures) listed by the entrance...BH could be a dept head so there would not be public listing like that. Have you checked Linkedin or tried calling Lowe's to ask which store BH is in vs just asking for BH at the particular store you call?

Think outside the box.

x 2

Recalling what I said about waiting...and DON'T tell your WH you are calling. That would be shooting yourself in the foot.

Funny you should mention: In the beginning WH constantly told me he didn't love her and never loved her. His tune there has changed. It went from "Never loved her" to "Was IN LOVE with her" to "I thought I loved her, but now I'm not so sure." As we currently stand, he belives he loved her as a cherished friend and he was infatuated with her, he believes that he "THOUGHT" he loved her, but is now beginning to see that there was somehting else going on. He also said that he completely agrees with the comparrison of an affair to a drug addiction, and the withdrawal or detox that takes place when it ends.

As for his actions: He has given me full access to everything. He keeps his safe unlocked in the closet. He even showed me his favorite hiding spots. He has turned over his credit cards to keep him from inappropriate spending. When I call, he answers immediately, or sends a text to let me know if something is delaying his answer... (ex. "giving DD a bath, will call in a few minutes"). The biggest changes are in his behaviors. He isn't hiding in the bedroom or bathroom for long periods of time (previous places for texted conversations)... He comes to every soccer game and practice with me. He even came with me to do the grocery shopping for the week. Aside from when one of us is working, he has stuck by my side like glue. At counseling last night, he kept taking my hand, putting his arm around me, and got me tissues while I cried. He rubbed my shoulders and kept the conversation going after the session ended. He also completed the Emotional Needs questionaire, traded with me, and has started trying to fill my emotional needs by sending random text messages of admiration! I really feel like he's trying.

Even if I cannot believe what he says and only half of his actions, I'd still say we are headed down the right path!

"Funny you should mention: In the beginning WH constantly told me he didn't love her and never loved her. His tune there has changed. It went from "Never loved her" to "Was IN LOVE with her" to "I thought I loved her, but now I'm not so sure." As we currently stand, he belives he loved her as a cherished friend and he was infatuated with her, he believes that he "THOUGHT" he loved her, but is now beginning to see that there was somehting else going on. He also said that he completely agrees with the comparrison of an affair to a drug addiction, and the withdrawal or detox that takes place when it ends."

The truth is trickling out because he is facing polygraph. The truth is that he is and was in love with her as a LOVER, not a "friend." He obviously does not have such "friendships" with men.

Do you have spyware on his phone? And are you continually VERIFYING that he is where he says he is?

Did you call the OW yet?

Is that really true? I'm fascinated by that thought.

OM emailed me once (after my request for information) and told me I "should do more fun stuff with her, maybe that was our problem". Thanks A-hole. Oh, and he didn't give me much information, but he did forward a couple of her (extremely lengthy) emails that she sent him. I'm sure he cherry picked the one's that minimized the intensity of the EA, they were really lame. He said he deleted all the others...sure.

You never know what you may get from OW, you gotta try. And get that poly scheduled. It seems like your biggest concern is you want to know what's going on in his mind (is he sincere?). That's what the poly does. Someone else reads his mind for you.

Thanks everyone. Working on getting the poly scheduled. Working on contacting OWH.

Perhaps I'll call OW tonight after WH goes to work.....

BB,
You can create a dummy linkedin acct to see more people. WIthout an account, I don't think you can see all applicable profiles:
http://www.linkedin.com/title/store-manager/at-lowes-home-improvement

If you do a google/yahoo search for BH with only his name and city/state (or various variables like Lowe's or his wife's name) you may get some hits. Have you cked online county records to see if divorce has been filed?

You may want to write down your questions for OW or your comments of what you'd like to get off your chest...but I wouldn't go on and on and on...sticking to facts that can be backed up helps too. It is easy to get emotional and flustered. Jotting down some notes, helps a BS stay focused.

Good luck!!!