I just really need to blow off some steam for a minute, or I'm going to say some very not helpful things to the WH.

Things have changed a little since I last posted, he has started to purse me more, although, still not to the point where I could say he is really making a good effort. He has spent a couple of nights, he has read through the MB site, I gave him my copy of He Wins, She Wins(after I read it), to read, and he claims to be reading it. He says he wants to work on things, and that we will sit down this week and "resolve some thing" <-- no idea what that is suppose to mean.

But...here is the issue. I really feel like I've hit the point where I really don't know if I want to work it out. I am so angry, and so hurt, and honestly, I just don't like him, and I don't know if I can every "like" him again.
He is, maybe, slowly, doing what he "should" be doing. But I still see so much lack of understanding of what the real issues are on his part. He makes choices that hinder efforts, like going to visit his grandma out of state the past weekend, after I said I was no ok with it. I brought up the POJA, and while he knows what it is, I think he really has no concept of what it means, or how to use it.
I told him right now(although I don't every see a reason to NOT us it) the POJA needs to be used because it will keep both of us from doing things that are just going to make things worse, like leaving town, when we(he) knows full well that where we belong is sitting across from each other talking, and or working on enjoying each others company. This action, going to see his gma, caused a HUGE love bank withdrawal from me, and I really think my lb is empty now, and verging on the negative...
(I did verify he was really where he said he was, just FYI)
He continues to give his meaningless apologizes, despite my telling him that I do not want them, they don't do anyone any good when his actions don't match his words. He also basically told me that I should know he cares, because if he didn't he would have "ended things". So he basically is saying because he hasn't filed for divorce, I should know he cares about me? that sounds like a total bs statement to me, and I pretty much told him that same. Again, this indicates lack of understand of pretty much everything to me, including what caring really is, and how you show caring.

I'm just confused and frustrated. I really haven't been pursing him at all. He has been pursing me, to a point, and learning about MB, but it's like he is sitting on this fence of "These things I'm reading are pretty interesting, and I WANT to work on things, and make them better, and this could probably help" but also "wow, this seems like a lot of work, and I like to make decisions on my own, and she wants me to check with her? on everything???"

I just want to run up to him and push him off of it!!!

I read your thread but did not get to listen to your radio call.

At this point, I think you should consider entering into "plan b"

He's coming over, having sex kn occassion, meeting you for coffee sometimes, but is unwilling to commit to MB principles.

He has lived an independent lifestyle and wants to continue that.

Would you like the status quo to continue for the next 20 years?

Just FYI we aren't having sex, and we won't be until he he can commit to something. Even if that is one of his top emotion needs, I do not at all feel comfortable with that until he is under the same roof. Never have been.

And no, I clearly won't be doing this much longer. He is well aware that the clock is rapidly ticking.

Have you told him you won't be doing this much longer? If I were in your shoes, bp, I would file for divorce. Tell him that this is not the marriage you envisioned but let him know what you would need in order to stay married. You have nothing to lose if you do that because if he changes and gets on board you will have a marriage. If he doesn't you will be divorced. Either would be a preferable alternative to the current situation. Filing for divorce would be a win/win solution.

It seems he believes you will always hang around and be his option. This is what Dr Harley was trying to tell you: don't make yourself available to be his option. It is unattractive.

Yes, I've told him I'm not will to stay in this position. He knows the limit, and if he doesn't act he knows I full intend on filing. Perhaps he is just waiting for the time to run so he doesn't have to do it himself? I don't know.
And your right...this real is not the marriage I envisioned...it really isn't a marriage at all.

Have you read Dr Harleys articles on Separation?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html

BP, what you've described is a pretty good Plan A, he is getting some needs met and you've kept your temper.

But women should not Plan A for longer than about three weeks. Not only is it harmful to your health, but it is very unattractive for women to compete over a man.

Men don't like a woman who sits around and acts like she has no better options. Women who do this are always used and abused.

Dr H encourages men to compete but he tells women not to. Just get out of there and let him find you. Plan B is not hard for him to break if he wants to. All he has to do is be a good husband and he can come home.

I don't think he is convinced of this at all. He is pretty much taking you by your actions and sees that you are perfectly willing to be his option. He even tells you how lucky YOU ARE that he hasn't filed for divorce.

bp, please make a decision to stop being his option and file for divorce. Take back control of your life. Tell him you are getting divorced because this "marriage" is unacceptable. If he wants to make changes you will consider stopping the divorce.

Don't waste your life being someone's option. Please. You will deeply resent it for years.

My aunt was married to a man that was later discovered to have secret bank account, a black book with escorts and their sex acts, and other horrible facts.
Their independent lifstyles enabled this.
For 30 years!

She divorced him but is now living with him again (unmarried)

I feel very sorry for her.

Dont live like this too long or you will find yourself an old woman in the same place you are today

You're all right I know. I guess I'll have to start truly preparing for, at the least, plan B.

It's just so heartbreaking to me. All I ever wanted was a little life with a little family, and a husband to shower with love, and instead I have this mess. A disrespectful H who acts entitled and treats me terribly.

Sorry, not looking for a pity party, just really feeling heartbroken today.

Will you file for divorce? I don't think he will ever believe you are serious if you don't. He clearly believes he is doing you a big favor by keeping you around as an option and not filing for divorce from you. You are oh so "lucky" to be his option.

I don't think he will ever be motivated to change anything unless you disabuse him of that notion. I don't think Plan B is going to get you anything other than to reinforce his view of you as his option, the exact opposite of what you want.

Plan B is kicking the can down the road in my view.

I am so sorry, bp. But please understand that if you take this step, you have a CHANCE at happiness. Either with him or with someone else. But you will not have that EVER if you just hang around hoping. You could be spending this time dating others and finding a partner who can make you happy. This man has not made you happy, he has brought you disappointment and heartbreak.

But how would plan B be leaving me as an option if I say I will not see/hear from you/have anything to do with you, unless x, y and z are agreed to?

Aren't you suppose to plan B before you divorce because if a WS is going to come to there senses, that's usually the time it happens? I'm not saying an infinite amount of time, but if you spend time to plan A, why would you not plan B before spending the time, and money to file for divorce? This is a genuine question.

And really, all the planning I have to do to Plan B, would be the same planning I need to do to file, so really it wouldn't be anymore complicated to Plan B for say 2 months, then if nothing changes, just file the paperwork.

Plan B just tells him you will still wait around to be his option. Filing for divorce tells him you won't. It shows him that you are leaving the marriage unless he makes radical changes. The whole purpose of Plan B is to protect you from an abusive situation. He is not abusing you. Sure, he is neglecting you, but in your case, I don't think anything short of filing for divorce is going to tell him you are serious.

If you really are serious, I would do both. But I would not put off filing any more. I am concerned that you are using Plan B as a way to avoid the inevitable.

I view Plan B as an exercise in kicking the can down the road.

I view this plan as conflict avoidance. It takes very little planning to file for divorce. You could contact an attorney and do it today.

The main purpose of Plan B is to separate from a wayward spouse during an affair, preserving the love bank balance and providing a road to reconciliation.

Did you read Dr Harleys articles on separation: When to Call it Quits?

That is not entirely true in this case, it would take quite a bit of planning to file for divorce as the house I live in is in his mothers names. I can't just file without, at the very least, finding somewhere else to live, which also involves moving several animals.
I'm not making excuses, just noting that this is not the typical case of our home is in our name so I could stay. It's not, so I couldn't. And he made/makes, so little money, and we have so much debt, that I really can't go out and get an apartment for myself without some actual planning.

Could I file the paperwork today? Sure, I work for lawyers(not family law) I'm sure I could get one of them to call up a friend and get something rolling today, but then I also run the risk of coming home to changed locks.

You don't have to do any of that in order to file for divorce. You can file for divorce and then make plans at your leisure.

I added this to the above: Could I file the paperwork today? Sure, I work for lawyers(not family law) I'm sure I could get one of them to call up a friend and get something rolling today, but then I also run the risk of coming home to changed locks.