Well its now a little over two years after my wife's affair ended. There have been a few ups and downs during recovery with mostly ups. To be a bit more clear, their have not been any setbacks from the affair, just the challenges that come from changing our broken lifestyle to one based on the Marriage Builders way. We are getting our 15 hours in and have been doing a good job of avoiding / eliminating love busters. This brings me to my problem. I am not getting the SF quality that I need and I feel that I must be doing something wrong or not understanding the women's side of SF. For me a fulfilling SF time is when we both reach orgasm. Being able to get there is not a problem for either of us, but the frequency is. I'd like to have fulfilling SF time about three times a week. She says she only needs it about one to two times a week. Her proposal for fixing this was to have SF time three times a week but for her to orgasm only if she is in the mood which is, like she said, about one time a week. She says that she enjoys the SF time and that she doesn't need an orgasm every time to be satisfied. My fear is in two parts.

One, I'm afraid that this is a sign that there are bigger problems because sexual desire for most women comes first from having their other EM's met. She tells me that I am meeting her needs but it makes me wonder; Is this a bad sign or am I incorrectly thinking that if all her emotional needs are being met she should want to reach orgasm every time? Should I just learn to accept the fact that she doesn't want to orgasm every time?

Two, when her affair was going on she was having sex 3 - 4 times a week between me and the OM, complete with orgasms each time. This time period only lasted a couple of weeks but when she tells me that she really only needs SF 1 - 2 times a week it triggers this thought process. It makes me think, "Gee, when she has the OM in her life, who was meeting some of her needs that I wasn't meeting at the time, she was very sexually active and wanted it 3 - 4 times a week."(note: It was about 1 time a week with the OM and 2 - 3 times a week with me) I have NOT said anything about this to her because I don't want to dwell on the past but it still pops into my head. The other thought that hits me is when we first started with the emotional needs questionnaire. She put down that she only needed SF with me 1 time a week. When I asked what she meant by one time a week with me she said if I was the OM she would have put down 3-4 times a week. This turned out to be because the affair was still going on at that time. After the affair truly ended she said her wanting the OM 3-4 times a week was because she was addicted to him at the time and she knows that if we had divorced and she continued with the OM she would have only wanted SF 1-2 times a week. In writing this I realize that I've never really gotten over her first statement. I think maybe this more than anything is what causes my confusion and sadness related to our SF time. So what do I do about it? How do I work with my wife to get past this without dwelling on the past?


Thanks for reading and I hope with a little guidance (or a lot) from this group I can get moving in the right direction.

Hi TechGuy;
You realize that you are basing your entire frustration on something she said while in the fog of her A, don't you? You recall seeing here that you should not take the word of a foggy wayward?
My suggestion is that you focus more on meeting her EN's. 15 hours of UA time is the bare minimum, for maintenance, once you are both head-over-heels in love. 15 hours is the threshold for most women, the point in the week when we BEGIN to feel connected. Dr. H says men don't typically need as much time, more like 5 to 6 hours weekly, so you may not feel this yourself. Recovering couples should aim for 20 to 25 hours.

In the book HNHN and also in the audio, Dr. Harley covers the difference in SF needs between men and women very well.

Most women have a lower need for sex, due to the lower testosterone levels. Testosterone is the force behind the craving/drive for sex. Women have only a tiny percentage of a man's level. Women who feel bonded with their man will often make love with him, even if they don't have the sexual craving, because they want to meet this need for him and also because of the prospect of enjoyment.

For a woman, enjoyment doesn't always mean orgasm. She can simply enjoy the experience. Orgasm is a lot more work for most women than it is for a man. A man who desires frequent sex won't "require" orgasm of his spouse each time.

Your wife seems to be in love with you and enjoys making love with you. Allowing her to experience an orgasm when she is in the mood will take the pressure off of both of you.

Sex the MB way is the quantity the man desires in the way a woman most enjoys. Basically, it's all about her. As long as every encounter is enjoyable with no pressure on her, you are likely to enjoy SF as frequently as you would like.

mgtechguy, are you rigorously focusing on Dr. Harley's recommendations for meeting her needs? 25+ hours of time spent giving her your undivided attention each week? (No kids, no friends, etc.) Creating an environment of affection by doing affectionate things for her each day, keeping in touch with her during the day, etc.? Forming an integrated lifestyle where you are partners and she is invited into each "room" of your life?

If all of this is true, then I would not worry.

But if you are cutting any corners here, then you are probably not getting all that you could be getting out of your relationship with your wife.

Techguy, could it be that you are over analyzing this problem? What, a tech guy over analyzing, how could that be?

Your wife knows what she needs for SF. For you to question that is actually disrespectful. Dwelling on what might well be considered by many as unrealistic standards for SF is going to open a Pandora's box of problems for both of you. You should accept what your wife tells you she needs, and be honest about what you need, then POJA to a solution. In my opinion, what your wife has proposed to you is very reasonable.

By the way, Dr. Harley has a lot of material about making SF enjoyable for your wife, in His Needs Her Needs and in his accompanying course. There's a lesson there you can work through together.

What I wouldn't do - what I would avoid at all cost!! - is bring up the mistake of the past. Her affair needs to have nothing to do with your present existence. If you want to work towards a more enjoyable and fulfilling relationship for both of you that's great - I would put it that way. Bringing up the mistakes of the past - her affair - is a cardinal Marriage Builders mistake. Only do this if you want to RUIN your chances of making anything better.

(BTW, in my opinion, most people don't get so detailed as to post the word "orgasm" on the board. That might be better saved for a letter to Dr. Harley's radio show.)

That is extremely demanding.

It is disrespectful of you to assume that sex without an orgasm is unfulfilling for her.

Her suggestion is right in line with what Dr. Harley would suggest. He says that a couple should have sex as often as the higher need spouse wants, but in a way that the lower need spouse enjoys.

You don't NEED her to have an orgasm 3 times a week to be sexually fulfilled. You are demanding it. She is more than willing to have sex with you 3 times a week, but won't enjoy it the way you are demanding it be done.

You should not be bringing up her affair at this point.

All these responses are so great. Thanks for staring this thread, I had a similar concern. Mr. E hit it pretty strait on.

I was actually starting to lean in the direction of "why have SF at all unless DW gets hers?" She tells me (as your W tells you) that it's not always necessary to orgasm to have an enjoyable time making love. In the back of my mind I always thought she was "just saying that" so I wouldn't feel like I had to put in all the effort to get her there (for us, it can take quite a bit of time...enjoyable, but time consuming). I even recall questioning her on this. Talk about a SD. Shame on me.

Thanks again for the post and the great replies.

Now that you point it out I do recall this. I guess I needed to read it again.


I'm not sure why but I was confused about this. Now it is clicking.


I think the corner cutting is that our 15 hours isn't enough and we need to strive to do more.


Both the over analyzing and setting unrealistic standards are part of the problem. I should have realized this. Perhaps I'm getting old. Seriously though there is no excuse and I need to do better.


I don't and won't bring it up. But the memories still pop up in my head. Not nearly as often as they used to but emotional memory runs deep for me.


Thank you all for helping me to see what I'm doing wrong. I didn't realize how disrespectful I was being. Time now for me to make an action plan. This morning I brought up the possibility of getting an accountability coach. Not sure if I can swing the cost but I really think both of us need someone to keep us moving and improving.

You brought it up in this thread.
You do not need to be comparing your current sex life with her past affair. This will keep you frustrated and unable to solve the problem in the present.