<BR>sidney, i have seen your posts and will answer all your questions but i gotta run now so i will get back to you later today or for sure tomorrow...try<BR>to read my past posts and also those of my w her moniker is life i'll see you later much peace and love...trying hard<BR>

TryHard,<P>I did go back and read several of your posts. I am very interested in your perspective on what you went through. <P>As the symptoms you mention are exactly what my H has described to me. He is conflicted, confused, it's an addiction, he's just reacting, said he feels like he's going down rapids, heading for the waterfall. Sounds to me like he is out of control, and doesn't know how to get it back.<P>I feel so helpless. I naturally want to help him, but I don't know how to, or even if I should try. Do you think there is anything I should or could do? I have already printed of reams of reading material from MB site, and purchased books for him to read. He is very receptive to the stuff I've given him. He just does not seem to be reaching out for himself. Was that the case with you too? Sometimes, I just think I am pushing/trying too hard. But, it's hard when you really love someone.<P>Was there one event that happened to you that jolted you back to reality? I read one of your posts where your W filed D papers. Was that the catalyst.<P>Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks for helping.

sidney...you have asked a lot of <BR>questions and i will try to answer them <BR>all honestly for you...i hope it helps.. <BR>what lifted the fog is a difficult one.. <BR>for me it was a lot of counseling and <BR>then my therapist reccommended <BR>"infidelity a survival guide" by dr don <BR>david lustreman..after i read that it <BR>was the first time that i felt that i <BR>was not alone and that what i was <BR>feeling was normal..a lot of the <BR>feelings that were described in the book <BR>made me feel like i was a text book case <BR>and i almost felt a little <BR>stupid..anyway that was really the <BR>beginning of my awakening..for me it was <BR>different than most in terms of there <BR>being an actual catalyst...i was in <BR>denial about a lot of things after <BR>discovery trying to keep my w shielded <BR>from any more pain..eventually in early <BR>sep when i went to ow to end it for good <BR>this was 2 mos after discovery although <BR>we had not been involved much since end <BR>of april..it became violent and what i <BR>already had begun to suspect about ow <BR>was starting to be confirmed in live <BR>actions...that she was unstable and so <BR>forth...the clearing of my mind came <BR>though after i began to understand the <BR>deceptive nature of being w/ ow and that <BR>it was only a fantasy...also i began to <BR>understand the nature of my own problems <BR>and how they related to the problems in <BR>my marriage...this was through <BR>counseling...finally i made it to mb <BR>which showed me the support and kind of <BR>was the glue to put it all together..the <BR>harley theories of relationship made a <BR>lot of sense to me and i could see what <BR>was missing from my marriage and a path <BR>to correct it although w has not decided <BR>yet if she wants to try...in choosing a <BR>therapist i just got lucky...i picked a <BR>random name out of my insurance book the <BR>woman's office was in the same building <BR>as my first apartment 10 years ago and i <BR>liked her from the first visit..she <BR>seemed to have experience with this area <BR>and although for many sessions said <BR>nothing or very little..she kept me on a <BR>path where i felt that i was progressing <BR>a little each time..she hardly ever <BR>gives advice but rather shares <BR>experiences in helping me understand and <BR>never ever made me feel my marriage was <BR>hopeless in fact from day 1 told me it <BR>was very possible to emerge from this <BR>with a better, stronger, marriage <BR>something i could never have imagined at <BR>that time, and now i understand how <BR>right she was/is although i'm not sure <BR>if my w and i will make it there but i <BR>do think it is very possible for any <BR>couple if they and i repeat they are <BR>committed to doing it...eventually yes i <BR>did tell my therapist i wanted to <BR>recommit but it took a while and i think <BR>my ambivalence had more to do with my <BR>wife being ambivalent which she still is <BR>now than my own feelings...the d papers <BR>were hard for me but as i am over the <BR>shock of that i realize that i no longer <BR>have ambivalence toward reconciliation <BR>and want nothing more than the chance <BR>from my w to recommit so yes i have told <BR>the therapist that...my w reactions <BR>during the affair...she didn't know <BR>about it i compartmentalized it to <BR>perfection and led a dual life...after <BR>discovery i was not involved the way i <BR>had been and the affair was already <BR>coming apart...she tried to stay in and <BR>we kind of went nowhere until ow sent a <BR>package of details to w which of course <BR>i had lied about to protect her all part <BR>of the addiction and denial...and that's <BR>when the d papers came...if i had been <BR>up front with her after discovery maybe <BR>it would have been different but there <BR>is no point in looking back...withdrawal <BR>is different for everyone sidney...for <BR>me it was easy because i had come out of <BR>the fog and realized all the mistakes <BR>and that i loved and wanted my w not <BR>ow..i had many opportunities to leave <BR>and go w/ ow but i knew at this point <BR>how unrealistic and silly it was...it <BR>was all based on lies and <BR>deception...anyway my personality being <BR>of the addictive nature i kind of <BR>related giving up the ow as i did to <BR>when i quit using cocaine some 13 yrs <BR>ago i did it cold turkey i said that i <BR>know i am addicted and cannot ever do <BR>this behavior again not even once no <BR>matter how tempted because i know that <BR>the one time leads to the eventual path <BR>of destruction that i have already been <BR>down..i guess it has a little to do with <BR>hitting rock bottom...i will not even <BR>talk to ow ever again if it is possible <BR>and so far has been although there is a <BR>lot more involved as she is <BR>pregnant...anyway i know what your h is <BR>thinking...is he in counselling by <BR>himself...he should be and joint also <BR>with you...it sounds to me also as hard <BR>as it is for you that plan b might be <BR>the way to go for you...if he is still <BR>with ow you must do all you can...even <BR>if it means hardcore plan b...he must <BR>decide on his own...does he visit <BR>mb...you should try to get him here my w <BR>was reluctant to come at first but now <BR>comes more often...you say he is <BR>receptive to reading...all you can do is <BR>provide him with the tools to <BR>understand..what more can you <BR>do...understand the problems in your <BR>relationship and what caused them and <BR>try to communicate to him that you <BR>understand what the problems are and <BR>that you are willing to try to work on <BR>them with him making it better for the <BR>both of you...try to pinpoint what needs <BR>the ow is meeting and explain to him <BR>that you want to learn together how to <BR>meet those needs for him...if he sees <BR>you are trying maybe he will realize <BR>whatever he is getting from her he has <BR>or can have at home and it is <BR>better...we all know it has to be that's <BR>why we marry...he has to realize that <BR>the grass is not greener on the other <BR>side and you can only help him to <BR>understand...be as loving as you can and <BR>try to communicate w/o lovebusting <BR>reassure him of your love and commitment <BR>to wanting to rebuild...i hope what i've <BR>said has made some sense and helped <BR>you..hang in there you are a strong <BR>person and don't give up hope if this is <BR>what you really want and if it doesn't <BR>work out at least you will know that you <BR>did all you could and can move on with <BR>your head held high...post me again i am <BR>always lurking i wish you all the best<BR>much peace and love ...trying hard

sidney, i don't think you've seen this reply yet and also i'm sorry to hear ow has cancer i guess you can't wish that on anyone and of course it makes it harder on you isn't that an irony...anyway hang tough you are becoming stronger by the minute i can feeeeel it....much peace and love...trying hard<BR>

Tryin Hard,<P>Yes, yes, I was really excited when I saw your post! I have it printed, and I want to read it over again. I read it real fast, before I spoke with H tonight. <P>This cancer thing has just put me into a real tailspin.<P>I am going to look for that book you mentioned. <P>Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate your support.

sidney, glad you caught the thread i'm going to sleep now and will chat tomorrow...just think of the cancer thing as another bump on the ride not to minimize it or anything...it's like just when you think things are smooth a big drop...the roller coaster we are all on is the worst one i've ever ridden and i know i am in the front seat of all the cars...and i love roller coasters!!!!!!<BR>hang in...much peace and loving trying hard