That is pretty disrespectful.

I think you are right. I tend to "victim puke" on occasion.

Well, things are just kind of coasting at the moment.

Our biggest sticking point seems to be SF. On this issue, my W is only willing in the sense that she is willing to sacrifice. And I'm not willing to let that happen anymore. So we are at an impasse.

About a year after D-Day and before coming here, she told me that the A happened because she was so attracted to the OM sexually. According to her, she had only experienced this one other time. About two years prior, she had been walked down the aisle at her friends wedding (she was a bridesmaid). The guy that walked her down the aisle was a Marine. A big guy. That night, he asked her up to his room. She declined. But she says that for days afterward, she couldn't get him out of her head and didn't know why. She had never felt that before.

Later, the OM was a teacher across the hall from her. He also is a big guy. According to her, she had the same kind of reaction to him. She started having sexual dreams about him and couldn't get him out of her head. This time though, there was opportunity, because unlike the wedding, they would see each other every day. Eventually that lead to her telling him about her dreams and the PA started.

So you can see why she doesn't buy into the EN meeting = love = willingness and desire equation. She doesn't believe it works that way because that hasn't been her experience. So I believe she holds out no hope that she will ever be attracted to me so she doesn't try. She is willing to "just do it" but as long as she has this narrative in her head, I think it's keeping her from buying in.

At least that's what I think.

FTF,

Well one of the needs in Dr Harleys list is AS, attractive spouse, and while we can work on ourselves all we want and lose weight etc, there are some aspects of our appearance that just can't be changed.

**EDIT**

God Bless
Gamma

I'm really afraid of ending up in your situation. No offense intended.


Nope. It never occurred to me at the time to do so. I don't even know if he was married at the time. This was maybe 6 or 7 years ago. She did message him on Facebook while the A was going on asking if he wanted to "hang out" if he ever came to our area. He never responded. She said at the time that she messaged him because she felt like it was a missed opportunity.

FightTheFight,

You really need to stop talking about her affair. You are in recovery now, and in recovery, there is no need to talk about the different aspects of her affair. Bringing it up and choosing to think about the OM will hinder all your recovery efforts.

One of the things about the AS emotional need, is that it is very "vulnerable" to lovebank deposits (so to speak). Dr. Harley has found that couples who really are not that attractive will find their spouse extremely attractive when in love. The OM has not made it impossible for your wife to be attracted to you. Gamma is missing the mark.

I suggest you stop letting OM interfere with your recovery.

Your wife is actually posting to Dr. Harley, and that is a very good sign.

I looked in the restroom mirror last night while we were out. I have aged! It's been over two years now and not a single day has gone by without having a knot in my stomach. It's really taken a toll on me and I just want it to stop. Nothing else to report, I was just taken aback by what I saw in the mirror.

People have always taken me for being younger then I was.

I feel I have really aged now. Maybe it's just we see a lot more gray.

FTF,

I'm really afraid of ending up in your situation. No offense intended.

None taken,

<<<EDIT>>> After a certain age it's difficult to determine if it's biology or us.

God Bless
Gamma

FTF, I heard a radio segment this morning that I thought might be good for you guys. It talked about the problem of a stay at home mother who felt bored - Dr. Harley talked about how a wife will tend to look to her husband for a solution to that problem, and unfortunately many counselors will discourage this: they will try to teach the wife not to look for fulfillment in her husband but to go out and get involved in other activities: a job, volunteer work, something else.

Prisca is a stay at home mom, and with six rowdy kids there are frequent rough days. I'm her constant support network - she and I stay in touch all day long through instant messenger and text. I can't always solve the problems, but I'm making love bank deposits all day long! Whatever the problem or the interest is, I talk about it. I think for us this is key to why things are working for us.

Anyway, here's the show:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=04086

BTW, I strongly suggest the idea of following Dr. Harley's 10-item affection list verbatim from this article, daily, for a few weeks:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010_qa.html
Notice that several of the items involve contacting your wife during the day, showing her that you are thinking about her when you are away from her, etc.

(BTW, I've been thinking about you guys a lot since your last post to Dr. Harley - that phrase "conversation that shows concern for her" caught my attention. That's what Prisca always needs a lot of, and why we stay in such constant contact throughout the day.)

Thanks Markos. I like the AF list and it fits nicely with the habits she has asked for. Luckily for me, most of those items are already habits as I tend to really enjoy affection myself. I only have a couple to add.

On the job front, FC has been working a seasonal job that will end tomorrow. She has been actively looking for another full time permanent position however. I'm torn on the idea, because financially it would be a great thing, but like Dr H was saying to RQ on yesterday's show, the idea of her having male coworkers really makes me nervous.

In her previous job as a teacher, there were few men who worked there, as it tends to be a female dominated field, yet an A still happened. In addition, it became be a place that she went to and lived a totally separate life to the point where she kept shoes and other items at work for exclusive use in that world. Even with this current job, I feel the independant behavior coming back into our relationship.

I want to eliminate the conditions that lead to it, but I still struggle with coming up with a definitive list that would put me at ease.

Be sure and listen to that radio show - I thought there were some very interesting comments from Dr. Harley about where he focuses when he hears that a wife is unhappy at home. Dr. H differs from what everyone told me and Prisca about that problem before we came to Marriage Builders.

Did you talk to FC about this? Maybe she should make it a priority to get a job where you could call anytime and talk to her. Something behind a desk perhaps?

You also said you really didn't need the money. How about part time work for her?

Ok I've listened to it 5 times now.

I'd say that in that clip Joyce and Dr. Harley have slightly different "go to" solutions to this problem. What they did in their own life was actually a combination of both of their ideas. I also noticed that Dr harley was talking about a wife that comes to her husband and says "I'm bored". In my case, the solution is presented along with the complaint though. "I'm bored and want more money. I need to get a job."

Well we don't "need" the money. I can pay the bills on my salary. But it would greatly enhance our date nights if we had a little more to play with. We are also wanting to buy a new house in the new year, so more money coming in would be better in that area as well.

I'm not opposed to her working per se, I'm just concerned about going right back into the conditions that lead to the A in the first place. It's like in RQ and Kiss's case, her H is in a different job, but same conditions basically. I almost sense a kind of giddyness from FC that finally now things can go back to "normal". Does that make sense?

Yes - I get the impression Dr. Harley thinks that a wife will not be fulfilled until she has that good relationship with her husband. At that point she may well be looking for some additional activities to fill her time, but the number one thing driving her life will be her fulfilling marriage.

I know that Prisca used to try to fill the emptiness in her life by doing lots of things with her sisters. She'd go spend time with them thinking she'd enjoy some time away from me, some girl time - and she'd have a good time, but the whole time she'd still feel an emptiness.

When we (I) started asking around for some help with our marriage, we got a lot of people (including one counselor) talking about the need for Prisca to have some good female friends and a good female support structure, the need to get involved in women's activities at church, etc., etc., etc. Then when we started the online program our coach Kim kept emphasizing to me that I was Prisca's support structure to call on and reach out to all day long.

That's an interesting perspective. Might make for some interesting conversation.

There was a really good discussion on the radio show yesterday about OS friendships at work. I just heard it on the replay today. It was in response to the email question from "Dawn".

I heard that one. Several good comments.