You are right TranquilDark. I am listening to the advise and trying to act on it, but having a very difficult time because I do not have physical evidence. I have yet to actually catch him doing anything. I honestly feel like he really does not want this to marriage to work. I feel like he is pushing me away a little at a time. He has a lot of resentment from my affair and he blames EVERYTHING wrong in our marriage on my affair, including his emotional affairs. He has been acting very distant since last week. We are both under extreme stress financially and with the holidays coming up it is never a happy time. He is not really communicating with me regarding how he is feeling about us and honestly I do not know if he is 100% wanting to fix this. I always feel like he has a hidden agenda, like waiting until after the holidays to say he really wants a divorce or something. He is still "hiding" things from me as well. He has a very good friend who has been like a sister to him since they were little. We are very close with her and her husband and my husband is actually related to her. He goes to the NFL games with her occasionaly. Well he went this Sunday. I asked him if they were going to see a male friend and he didn't give me an exact answer. I checked phone records and he talked to this male friend the night before and the morning of the NFL game. Low and behold he did go see that male friend and hung out with him for a while. H did tell me that he went and saw him, but my thing is he knew he made plans to hang out with this male friend and did not tell me. Why? Why is he hiding things from me wether I would be upset or not, he should not hide things. I feel like he doesn't want to have fun with me and that he will never love me like he did. I am just confused.

He may be having an affair with this sister like friend; at a very minimum an emotional affair

I can completely see where people would think that. Who knows at this point. It appears that he had an EA for 5 years that could have been PA. He had another EA during that time and yet another EA this year. At this point I have no idea what is truth or not. I am trying to make sense out of things that he has told me or hasn't told me and the things I have found. I am also wondering why he says he is "constantly going back and forth trying to appease me". Hmmmmffff.

Well thought that you all would love more of the gaslighting i am receiving. H was offered a job position at another agency. He is now telling me that the "constant back and forth trying to appease me" is about him leaving his job. So No. 1. He doesn't want to leave, No. 2, will blame me if he leaves and No. 3 sees nothing wrong with him still being there. Something tells me that I am right about everything.

Did you tell him he has a month to leave that job and find another?

I did not discuss anything with him last night. I do not speak to him if I know I will have an angry outburst. So, No, I have not spoken with him about any of it YET. I have written him a letter, including definition of emotional affairs, made a list of all of the "evidence" and also took parts from the Johnny Letter I found on here. I will probably never, ever know the truth about the past when he was gone, but there is one thing that I will not allow to happen and that is him blaming me, not taking responsibility for his actions, manipulating me or not looking at this as an affair! He is blaming and using everything he can about my affair 10 years ago to justify himself. I still do not know the truth about the EA with Co Worker here yet either. So he will have to either decide if he wants to work on our marriage and make me priority or if he wants to stay at his current place of employment. Then I will have all of my answers.

Are you preparing for Plan B? What happens if he won't meet your conditions?

My ex husband cheated on me with multiple women for many years, so I understand your feelings of anger/frustration/helplessness. However, you'll feel even more angry/frustrated/helpless if you believe you have the power to make him change. You don't. You cannot stop him from blaming you; you cannot make him take responsibility for his actions; you cannot prevent him from trying to manipulate you; and you cannot force him to acknowledge his affairs. You cannot. You cannot. You cannot.

Years of gaslighting have made you doubt your perspective to such an extent that you don't even know whether the sky is blue. You are finally seeing his manipulation for what it is, and you are desperately trying to stand up for yourself and protect yourself. I get it. I really do. The problem is that you cannot protect yourself by trying to control him. The only person you can control is yourself.

You don't have the power to make him stop, but you do have the power to walk away if he refuses to stop. You don't have to spend the rest of your life wondering if you are crazy for thinking the sky is blue.

Thanks JessicaClaire. I needed to hear that this am. He texted me just now and told me that he feels like whenever he tells me he is going to the office I get pissy. He said "That's whats wrong with him and That's why he is taking the job at the other agency" So now I will be blamed for him taking a job that he doesn't want and he will resent me for that as well. I have not replied to him yet because I am trying to get my response in order so that I do not have an angry outburst.

Oh and I must mention that still to this day he does not think he did anything wrong with this co worker, he is still mad at me for yelling at her and causing tension at this workplace.

Every time he walks into the office where he works with OW, he is twisting the knife in your back. He has been doing this to you on a daily basis, and he has the audacity to criticize you for being upset about it? Do you see how abusive that is?

In my opinion, you should stop trying to craft a perfect response because there is no response that will make a bit of difference. You cannot control his behavior through your response.

I hope you know that you do not deserve this as some sort of penance for the affair you had years ago. He isn't doing this because your responses aren't perfect enough. He isn't doing this because you haven't tried hard enough. He isn't doing this because you aren't enough. You are.

He is blaming it all on the OW. He says he did nothing wrong? WTH? He clearly is fighting to stay where he is and is in denial. I am now about to explode.

So I may not have done the best thing just now, but all is fair in love and war? I just sent him information regarding emotional affairs, a checklist and signs, etc. I told him I was passing it along so that maybe he would get a better understanding of why I feel the way I do. I also included all of the "puzzle" pieces at the end that I found, saw, etc. So I am sure he probably will not read it, but it made me feel better that I did something without having an angry outburst!

I feel like you are having knee-jerk, emotional reactions--getting blown about by every wind--rather than making deliberate, rational decisions. Your husband is not in denial; he is "cake eating." He knows from experience that you will threaten consequences but not follow through.

If you have given him Marriage Builders reading materials, then he can no longer use ignorance as an excuse. At some point, he needs to either get on the path to real recovery, or get out. I feel like you should start preparing for Plan B.

Have you written the Harleys for advice?

You are right!

Yes I did write the Harley's. Dr. Harley said we never recovered from my affair. He has had multiple EA(at least)and is still in a EA right now. He is not invested in me or our marriage and will not be until he stops EA. They were sending me a copy of SAA but I never received it. This was back in September. My question was aired on the radio. I did email them a couple of weeks ago asking for more assistance but I never received a response. We did one worksheet and he got mad and threw the emotional needs questionnaire in the garbage and wrote "i can't answer any of these questions" on it.

HOLY MOLY!!! I just got an email from Joyce Hartley. The reply to my recent email is on radio today.

So I listened to the radio question/answer. Though most of it was correct, Joyce did get some things wrong. I am dealing with a possible PA/definite (two) EA's when he worked out of town and now dealing a new EA at his new place in our town.

He did not write a NC letter to the OW and Joyce kind of blended the situations together. That is okay!

He advised that I need to contact OW husband and he also said that H needs to quit his job. So we shall see.

Have you contacted OW's BH?

Did you tell him he needs to leave the job?

When were you on in September or your question answered in September?

I would notify the MODS and let them know you never you received SAA or write back to Joyce and let her know. Did you give them your address?

Boo, did you ever start doing any Plan B preparations? You do realise you are only supposed to be in Plan A for three weeks?

You've been bouncing around for months trying to talk sense into somene who is as high as a kite.

Why are you negotiating with him so much? Educating him?

You can't really talk to a drunk.

If he won't meet the conditions immediately you need to be ready to go dark.


All your remonstrating is counter productive. It sends the message that you are willing to stick around and argue.

That's a wayward's dream set up.

So after my email to him yesterday including a letter and definitions, signs, etc. of emotional affairs he responded to me with a three page letter this am. I read it and you will all be interested to know that not only does he say he has done NOTHING WRONG, he also said that it is all because he cannot get over my affair 10 years ago, he hates the holidays because they are not special anymore because he doesn't feel it in his heart to buy me things, he is tired of appeasing me, when he left in May he wouldn't have come back if the AC at the place he was staying wouldn't have gone out, that he will never get over my affair and he is miserable, and that he only told me and agreed that he had an emotional affair to appease me.
So I gave him my response today in which I told him I was done, none of this is my fault and he absolutely has done things wrong, and I attached a Petition for Divorce to it.

He has made me into this angry, bitter person but what infuriates me to no end is that he still cannot see that he has done anything wrong. Like everyone has said, put the evidence in front of a jury and see what they say.
I thank all of you for being so kind and sympathetic and trying to help me and you have. I will need a lot of support and help with my confidence in myself and this was a HUGE STEP for me. I have been with this man since he was 17 years old. He will always hold a piece of my heart. I do not see us reconciling and to be honest at this point I do not know if that is what I want because I cannot live with someone who does not want help, wants to justify his behavior by blaming me because of my affair. I deserve so much better.