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BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Hey ... Can you guys explain this alpha/beta male thing? I have heard of it, but I am not quite sure what it is.
How does a woman know what she wants?
I am an engineer. My income is six figures. I am 5'6" tall, 137.5 pounds. I have a Master's degree, kids, a home, a vehicle.
Does any of this attract an alpha male, or am I too successful for them?
Dr. Harley suggests a woman should make less than a man, and you should date like minded folks. I am thinking of just being a high school math teacher next year to solve this problem.
Thoughts? Having a good income, your own life and independence are alpha female traits. Everyone needs alpha traits for attraction - which is why you take care of yourself in plan A, and beta caring traits for comfort in a relationship - which is why you take care of your partner in plan A. For males, alpha is physical and social presence, money, power, danger. In its most extreme form it's why women write to guys in prison. Beta for males is watching the kids on girls night, vacuuming the house, earning a living in a bad economy. Hope this helps.
FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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I can't attract the alpha male can I? Even if they say they are alpha or act alpha ... that isn't really who I am getting, correct?
I get the beta male, don't I? Can I throw this out there? It seems many think they are alpha males, but in all reality they are beta. They act tough, but deep inside they are full on insecurity. They want massive amounts of admiration, and criticism sends them into a tail spin.
I find men who think they are alpha are quite sensitive. Is this the norm?
Men do not like Alpha Females. I can tell you this ... the vast majority do not like them as wives. I seem to want the alpha as my mate, but yet I am too strong for them.
Help, what can I do to fix this?
Last edited by HomeSweetHome; 11/15/13 12:23 PM.
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earning a living in a bad economy. How is this beta?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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My profile, in case anyone is truly bored and just needs something to help you fall asleep:  ABOUT ME AND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: Mostly, I would like to learn more about you! Do you have a fun, quirky sense of humor? Then you are my dream. If you are clean-cut, possibly with glasses, then you are especially attractive to me, so I will be on. my. guard. Are you respectful of all people, of life? Are you thoughtful and considerate? Then you'll have to catch me, because I will swoon. I enjoy being feminine - in an understated, classy way. I am careful to live a life of honesty and gentleness. I can be strong when necessary, and I will deeply appreciate your strength. Finally, please give [SOMETHING] either a thumb's up or down: separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were... (This stuff is further down, and some don't bother to read it, but I can tell the ones who DO) FOR FUN: I am a total nerd: I read a lot, I like documentaries and a few quirky comedies, I play piano and scrabble. I am an artist and an armchair philosopher, so I enjoy observing life and asking 'why.' I love to spend time with the people I care about! HOT SPOTS: I thrive on world travel, so it is difficult to narrow down my favorite place: probably a toss-up between Cairo and Zanzibar. This said, I would like to gain a greater appreciation for [MY TOWN], so if you have ideas, please share. FAVORITE THINGS: Laughing and enjoying the company of fascinating people. Solving complex problems: both personal and professional. Thoughtfully-prepared food. Flowers. Babies. Kittens. (I'm a girl...of course I love these things! - smile) LAST READ: When Bad Things Happen to Good People - H Kushner. Anything that is real or 'tragic' appeals to me. My all-time favorite book is Anna Karenina, but I won't bore you by spelling out why. It's probably trite, but I love Shakespeare. (MY PHOTOS: I make sure to write a comment on every photo. Usually I make fun of myself in them, because it's just ridiculous to have a bunch of pictures of ME in various locales, outfits, etc. Seriously. Like a Flat Stanley or something.) ...do these get erased automatically? I wish they didn't. It helps me to see other people's ideas.  Zhamila, Your profile is amazing, it would certainly have my attention. It's full of personality, witty, clever, communicates, down to earth, gives the feeling that you are approachable, and even has some bait-the-hook in it. I think most 'quality' dudes would immediately know that a simple 'howdy' isn't going to cut it with this girl. I know that I would be thinking this girl is on it, and then start working on a crafty/witty message that teases, introduces myself and my personality, and hints at what I have to offer. I find it interesting that you describe yourself as nerdy. I am also nerdy (I have Sr and Engineer in my job title), but I didn't mention it because I think dude nerdy gives the impression of 'gamer' while chick nerdy gives the impression of 'smart'. Perhaps I should change that. Let me try this one on the women in the group. What does a woman think when she reads this: One thing I really enjoy is flying. My childhood dream of taking to the sky and enjoying the freedom of flight came true a few years ago when I got my pilot's license. Flying allows me to see new places, explore the glaciers and mountains, and share those experiences with my friends and family. ak
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Here is my take on Alpha/Beta:
Simply put, people tend to gravitate towards one of the two following world views:
Go-getter:
I'm ok with who I am.
I'm driven to succeed.
I'm responsible for my own actions.
I take care of myself.
I'll take the initiative.
I'll step up and be the leader.
Down-and-outer:
I don't like myself.
I don't believe I have the ability to change my life.
I do things to try and earn other peoples affection and respect.
I need others around me to encourage me in order to be ok.
If there is a leader around then I'll follow so that I can earn their respect.
I believe that people try to assign alpha and beta to this in order to have a generic term that describes ambition and security, however, I think extreme Alphas are more like narcissists, and really don't care about anyone but themselves.
I tend to be attracted to 'alpha' females because the 'betas' don't tend to work on themselves and grow, but I certainly don't want to be around the extreme narcissist women. They are so focused on their independence and achievements that they miss the point of having a relationship.
ak
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One thing I really enjoy is flying. My childhood dream of taking to the sky and enjoying the freedom of flight came true a few years ago when I got my pilot's license. Flying allows me to see new places, explore the glaciers and mountains, and share those experiences with my friends and family. **LIKE** Dude nerdy doesn't have to mean 'gamer' if you pick the right description. A gamer would be unappealing to me...and probably many women. One man I found very interesting stated that he liked to take things apart and put them back together again. He never mentioned his profession. Between that, him mentioning he enjoyed sci-fi, and hunting through junk stores he showed his 'nerdy' side but it was balanced out with his enjoyment of action movies, beer, choice of music and activities...it was an attractive mix.
Last edited by black_raven; 11/15/13 12:54 PM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
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I can't attract the alpha male can I? Even if they say they are alpha or act alpha ... that isn't really who I am getting, correct?
I get the beta male, don't I? Can I throw this out there? It seems many think they are alpha males, but in all reality they are beta. They act tough, but deep inside they are full on insecurity. They want massive amounts of admiration, and criticism sends them into a tail spin.
I find men who think they are alpha are quite sensitive. Is this the norm?
Men do not like Alpha Females. I can tell you this ... the vast majority do not like them as wives. I seem to want the alpha as my mate, but yet I am too strong for them.
Help, what can I do to fix this? I tend to agree with what you wrote. IME, many men claim they want a strong woman but can't handle it when they get one. As far as 'fixing'...you can't 'fix' a man but if you are coming off TOO strong or intense early on, you should dial it back some. Take an honesty assessment of yourself.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
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BR ... I am not sure if I am too strong. My profiles online are as honest as they come. I think it comes to my own internal conflict.
My role as wife is my greatest role. I enjoy this role the best, and I feel I am the strongest at this role. But currently I am a single mom who has a job that pays me very well, and a life I built off that salary.
The two worlds collide, and it is difficult to come off career woman when interviewing for wife...because if that guy doesn't work, well I am still single mom career woman.
I am still just trying to find my grounding as to what I want for my future. As you know I am often internally fighting with myself because I want to be wife, but my reality is not that.
Last edited by HomeSweetHome; 11/15/13 01:56 PM.
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I didn't mean just what your profile says...I meant when you meet up for a date do you come off too strong (in words) with your mate/husband requirements? Or that you are all that and a bag of chips? KWIM? I would hear this complaint from some men about women and would look at if he was the 'problem' or her...or both.
The internal fighting...BTDT. Because you want to be the wife...that is more what I meant if you are coming off too strong. It can scare men away...even the non-wimpy ones.
I don't think you have to come off career woman when interviewing for wife either. That is what Jedi meant...he can correct me if I'm wrong...why dumb yourself down? A man should appreciate what you have to offer...at your best...not only accept you if he gets a dumbed down version. Personally, I would be insulted. A real alpha male would be insulted too.
Last edited by black_raven; 11/15/13 02:57 PM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
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I come off as wife because all my online dating profiles specifically state this as my goal.
Most men I agree to go on a date with have stated they are looking for a serious girlfriend and/or would like to remarry and/or are looking for "The One". I assume both of us meet with the same goal in mind ... he wants a great wife and I want a great husband. That is normally how I date (with online guys mostly)
I feel like I have always been upfront about my wants ... I want to be a wife. Yet when I get to the coffee date or the lunch date ... something seems off, like I am too strong.
I like your feedback and I will talk to the guys I work with to figure out how I should present myself.
Indie made a great statement ... on date #1 it is freeloader, but my date #2 & #3 it should move to renter. I feel like I do this.
If I get one inclination the man is not going to move to renter then I don't entertain another date. This has happened on several dates ... they told me what they wanted, I agreed to lunch, but their intentions was SF. I won't throw all men under the bus because this doesn't happen all the time.
I am having more success with the guys I work with because they get to see me in action. I bake homemade bread for them, cook them food, bring them desserts, and just spoil them with my favorite wife like things that I like to do. Most are thrilled to pieces by my actions. What I am trying to say is they get to see my wife like qualities, and some respond to that.
I will re-evaluate my body language. I am probably too strong for many online candidates.
Last edited by HomeSweetHome; 11/15/13 03:11 PM.
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I am an engineer. My income is six figures. I am 5'6" tall, 137.5 pounds. I have a Master's degree, kids, a home, a vehicle.
Does any of this attract an alpha male, or am I too successful for them? I consider myself an Alpha male. I am also an engineer, have a six figure income, pilot's license, airplane, nice house, kids, and a car. Like you I am ambitious, decisive, and know exactly what I want. You wouldn't be too successful for me, actually, just perfect. here is why: Because you know how to build a relationship, how to communicate, how to meet needs, follow POJA, and get your own needs met. Honestly, that isn't super common. Most successful people people I've met are that way at the expense of their relationships. Perhaps men think you will be like that, that you will be fiercely independent and pursue your goals at the expense of the relationship. Honestly, I don't understand why you fine ladies aren't finding awesome men, I would love to meet any one of you. ak
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I come off as wife because all my online dating profiles specifically state this as my goal.
Most men I agree to go on a date with have stated they are looking for a serious girlfriend and/or would like to remarry and/or are looking for "The One". I assume both of us meet with the same goal in mind ... he wants a great wife and I want a great husband. That is normally how I date (with online guys mostly)
I feel like I have always been upfront about my wants ... I want to be a wife. Yet when I get to the coffee date or the lunch date ... something seems off, like I am too strong. Gotcha. I avoided men looking for "The One" (my divorce was new) so didn't expect a renter on date #2 or #3 but I know what you mean and experienced the same to a degree with online dating...expectations still weren't met to some degree...and I don't think I had any out there expectations. I didn't meet my bf online but am glad I got the online experience.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I like your profile, Z! It's a great balance between communicating who you are/what you're looking for without actually saying THIS IS WHO I'M LOOKING FOR.
Men like playful, and brief.
I had posted my profile here a while back and it was removed, but I do hope a few people saw it and that it helped them. Because, not to pat myself on the back too hard, it was very effective.
I sincerely hope I never have to go back on any dating site. My sweet BF (who saw my profile, wrote to me and said "you really do sound awesome", which I am) and I both deleted our accounts for good. It's not even been 3 months, but he's the real deal. YOU CRACK ME UP!!  I did miss your profile, and was dying to read it after you got so many kudos! I love that your man said, "You sound really awesome," and you thought, "I AM." Go girl! Sooooo happy for you. 
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Thank you all!!! Especially Zhamila! All the advice I have received is exactly what I am looking for. I have re-vamped my profiles and will do more now with the new advice. I do have the close up smiling pics as well as the ones showing my whole person having fun. Smiling in them all. I don't understand how people can think someone might message them if they are all sour faced. You guys totally rock! BIG SMILE! Please come back and share your successes with us (oh...the failures are funny, so please share those too! LOL) I'm excited to hear more.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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My role as wife is my greatest role. I enjoy this role the best, and I feel I am the strongest at this role. But currently I am a single mom who has a job that pays me very well, and a life I built off that salary.
The two worlds collide, and it is difficult to come off career woman when interviewing for wife...because if that guy doesn't work, well I am still single mom career woman.
I am still just trying to find my grounding as to what I want for my future. As you know I am often internally fighting with myself because I want to be wife, but my reality is not that. HSH, this breaks my heart for you. I would also love to be a wife again, to care for a good man and be cared for. What helps me is to focus on my 'present.' Today is all I have, and today I'm a lucky mom with a great job and a pretty nice life. What I long for is a loving relationship. HOWEVER - for right or wrong - I don't approach any date as "interviewing for wife." I am merely meeting a man who might have the qualities I'm looking for in a long-term relationship. I am interviewing HIM.  If you continue to value yourself and all that you have to offer the right man, you'll be able to focus on assessing whether HE is good enough for YOU. ...and any man without a job? NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU. (heehee - I know you know this! It's just a joke) The toughest part about dating (for me, anyway) is longing for a love relationship, but not showing it too much. There's a balance between being a "buyer" in your heart, and coming across as needy, or wanting just "anyone" who will settle down with you. But I suspect this will be a moot point once I meet "the right one." We'll both sort of 'know,' from the beginning, and that feeling will grow as we learn more about each other.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Zhamila,
Your profile is amazing, it would certainly have my attention. It's full of personality, witty, clever, communicates, down to earth, gives the feeling that you are approachable, and even has some bait-the-hook in it.
I think most 'quality' dudes would immediately know that a simple 'howdy' isn't going to cut it with this girl. I know that I would be thinking this girl is on it, and then start working on a crafty/witty message that teases, introduces myself and my personality, and hints at what I have to offer.
I find it interesting that you describe yourself as nerdy. I am also nerdy (I have Sr and Engineer in my job title), but I didn't mention it because I think dude nerdy gives the impression of 'gamer' while chick nerdy gives the impression of 'smart'. Perhaps I should change that. Thanks AK! I do get lots of witty emails. There are some funny dudes out there  I agree that "nerdy" is easier for a girl to say than for a guy. I totes agree with Black Raven's assessment, here: Dude nerdy doesn't have to mean 'gamer' if you pick the right description. A gamer would be unappealing to me...and probably many women.
One man I found very interesting stated that he liked to take things apart and put them back together again. He never mentioned his profession. Between that, him mentioning he enjoyed sci-fi, and hunting through junk stores he showed his 'nerdy' side but it was balanced out with his enjoyment of action movies, beer, choice of music and activities...it was an attractive mix. YES! Very attractive mix. Though I admit the action movies & beer wouldn't flip my switch. LOL. I guess I'm a "nerd purist!" Did I mention that Dream Dude's favorite movie was, "The Music Man?" It was the nerdiest thing I've ever heard. I swooned... There is NO accounting for taste! 
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Let me try this one on the women in the group. What does a woman think when she reads this:
One thing I really enjoy is flying. My childhood dream of taking to the sky and enjoying the freedom of flight came true a few years ago when I got my pilot's license. Flying allows me to see new places, explore the glaciers and mountains, and share those experiences with my friends and family. Dude with plane? Very attractive. I must admit to feeling a little ADD when I read it. I'm sure it's just me, but I'd probably catch it quicker if it was shorter. Dumbing it down for me helps. Something zippy, like: (Photo of you in cockpit, giving the 'thumbs up.') Caption: "Yes. I am Superman. I can fly." OR "I have a weird view of the world. Probably from hanging out at high altitudes too much (I'm a pilot hobbyist)." OR "I get a rush from flying in my free time. But not nearly as much of a rush as I'll feel when I meet the right woman." Again, this is just ME. I'm sort of a USA Today kinda gal in that I like succinct - but rich - content in a profile. And witty/self-deprecating helps me see the guy isn't too arrogant.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Though I admit the action movies & beer wouldn't flip my switch. LOL. LOL Zhamila. I do like action movies...the superhero movies are nerdish and I LOVE those. As for the beer...to me that is an indicator that the man is laid back and not pretentious. Until I meet him in person, I took the "beer" comment that way. Now if he turned out to be Homer Simpson that is another story lol...and bye bye.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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