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To make a very long story short, my husband has struggled with pressing boundaries even before we got married. (went to addictions couseling when i called off the wedding then we got married about 6 months later when his couselor give the okay.)

Anyways, trust has always been an issue with me as he did not put filters on the computer, get an accountability partner ect. Pretty much he has a strong will so he says he can make himself do what he wants etc. (as far as i know he might be honest part of the time and then just lie about things he considers "small". I have been a bit overbearing in the sexual area bc he never put any boundaries or communicated them.)

After our first child, the lack of support and his always going out with single guys/getting too drunk in my opinion/ and trying to press any type of sexual boundary i have said bothers me. I finally got to the point where I left him and said we have to get help or I wont come back. (There was more going on than just honesty.)

Anyways, so now he is open to reading the books love busters and his needs, her needs. He is unwilling to do couseling as he says he cant be honest with someone he feels will be judging him/ they dont work.

I'm waiting for him to read the love buster open/honesty ch and the one in the other book and fill out the "action steps part".

Any tips on knowing if he is serious? I'm afraid bc his first deployment will probably be in about 5 months. At this point I have an EXTREME amount of anxiety if were apart from each other and he goes out with friends, even if he is trying to communicate with me the entire night. Any any advice for when the deployment comes around? I'm terrified he will get caught up in porn/ not stand up for our relationship and just go where his friends want to go etc (we have different views on what is acceptable in a marriage relationship, but now he says he will stand up for what i personally consider wrong..i.e. strip clubs/lap dances etc.) . Any advice for dealing with this whole topic in myself and knowing what to look for?

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Originally Posted By: AJC1
To make a very long story short, my husband has struggled with pressing boundaries even before we got married. (went to addictions couseling when i called off the wedding then we got married about 6 months later when his couselor give the okay.)

Anyways, trust has always been an issue with me as he did not put filters on the computer, get an accountability partner ect. Pretty much he has a strong will so he says he can make himself do what he wants etc. (as far as i know he might be honest part of the time and then just lie about things he considers "small". I have been a bit overbearing in the sexual area bc he never put any boundaries or communicated them.)

After our first child, the lack of support and his always going out with single guys/getting too drunk in my opinion/ and trying to press any type of sexual boundary i have said bothers me. I finally got to the point where I left him and said we have to get help or I wont come back. (There was more going on than just honesty.)

Anyways, so now he is open to reading the books love busters and his needs, her needs. He is unwilling to do couseling as he says he cant be honest with someone he feels will be judging him/ they dont work.

I'm waiting for him to read the love buster open/honesty ch and the one in the other book and fill out the "action steps part".

Any tips on knowing if he is serious? I'm afraid bc his first deployment will probably be in about 5 months. At this point I have an EXTREME amount of anxiety if were apart from each other and he goes out with friends, even if he is trying to communicate with me the entire night. Any any advice for when the deployment comes around? I'm terrified he will get caught up in porn/ not stand up for our relationship and just go where his friends want to go etc (we have different views on what is acceptable in a marriage relationship, but now he says he will stand up for what i personally consider wrong..i.e. strip clubs/lap dances etc.) . Any advice for dealing with this whole topic in myself and knowing what to look for?

First thank you to you and your H for your service.

Can he get out of the service? The only way you will know is by his actions and how will you know when he is away?

Unless you can have his 1st shirt or someone to be an accountability coach?


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Originally Posted By: AJC1

Anyways, so now he is open to reading the books love busters and his needs, her needs. He is unwilling to do couseling as he says he cant be honest with someone he feels will be judging him/ they dont work.


People only say that when they are doing something wrong. No one worries about being "judged" when they are doing the right thing. When he is honest about something that upsets you, the solution is for him to stop doing it. That is necessary to create a happy marriage.

It sounds to me like your marriage could greatly benefit from the policy of joint agreement. The measure of whether or not your marriage has a future is contingent on that policy. The POJA means you never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. Would your husband agree to that policy?

For example, would he agree to never going out with friends without you? Even when he is deployed? Since that is upsetting to you [and harmful to marriages] would he agree to not do that?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: AJC1
(we have different views on what is acceptable in a marriage relationship, but now he says he will stand up for what i personally consider wrong..i.e. strip clubs/lap dances etc.) . Any advice for dealing with this whole topic in myself and knowing what to look for?


All of those things are very destructive to marriage and you should not stay in a marriage with a spouse who subjects you to such risks. As long as he insists on doing such things, you will never be safe. You would be better off separated until he agrees to act like a married man.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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What was the addition counseling for?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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He went to addictions counseling for porn and id found him contacting girls for pictures and he pressured me to do things i didnt want to do sexually before married. (Then he went to addictions couseling for 6 months and we got married after that. Looking back I feel dumb..but he also has a lot of great qualities just I would say he struggles in that area in a way. Although I dont belive he has watched porn recently...Maybe. I havnt caught it, just smaller things that i asked him not to do. Like buying certain mens magazines bc i said that bothered me. maybe being as bit crazy on that idk, but he didnt draw any lines so tried.)

He does not go to strip clubs THAT I KNOW OF. I know he has tried to drag me there before with his friend when drinking was invloved. He SAYS his issue is that he dosnt see it as a problem, but he says NOW he wont search it out, but I worried he wont NOT GO if his friends are all going...even if he now says he cares about how it makes me feel.

I'm gone a lot recently bc i get help with the baby at home and travel a bit for work. (I dont have to travel I do choose to travel back home bc I get more help...now I'm living at home for the last month bc I was sorta trying the plan B as advised from a few couselors. He initally said he wanted a divorce and then a week and a half later said he wants to work it out and this past year and a half ish he has only been with me becuase of the baby. (we have only been married for almost 3 years with a 2 and a half year old.)

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No, he is in a contact for the next 6 years he just winged so no hope of him getting out of the program now.


Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Originally Posted By: AJC1
To make a very long story short, my husband has struggled with pressing boundaries even before we got married. (went to addictions couseling when i called off the wedding then we got married about 6 months later when his couselor give the okay.)

Anyways, trust has always been an issue with me as he did not put filters on the computer, get an accountability partner ect. Pretty much he has a strong will so he says he can make himself do what he wants etc. (as far as i know he might be honest part of the time and then just lie about things he considers "small". I have been a bit overbearing in the sexual area bc he never put any boundaries or communicated them.)

After our first child, the lack of support and his always going out with single guys/getting too drunk in my opinion/ and trying to press any type of sexual boundary i have said bothers me. I finally got to the point where I left him and said we have to get help or I wont come back. (There was more going on than just honesty.)

Anyways, so now he is open to reading the books love busters and his needs, her needs. He is unwilling to do couseling as he says he cant be honest with someone he feels will be judging him/ they dont work.

I'm waiting for him to read the love buster open/honesty ch and the one in the other book and fill out the "action steps part".

Any tips on knowing if he is serious? I'm afraid bc his first deployment will probably be in about 5 months. At this point I have an EXTREME amount of anxiety if were apart from each other and he goes out with friends, even if he is trying to communicate with me the entire night. Any any advice for when the deployment comes around? I'm terrified he will get caught up in porn/ not stand up for our relationship and just go where his friends want to go etc (we have different views on what is acceptable in a marriage relationship, but now he says he will stand up for what i personally consider wrong..i.e. strip clubs/lap dances etc.) . Any advice for dealing with this whole topic in myself and knowing what to look for?

First thank you to you and your H for your service.

Can he get out of the service? The only way you will know is by his actions and how will you know when he is away?

Unless you can have his 1st shirt or someone to be an accountability coach?

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He is Unwilling to not go out when I'm not there. He says he would be alone all the time becasue all his friends go out and drink. (and to be honest...I dont know almost anyone we have met that does not at least in our training squadrons etc) But he tends to like the single guys anyways. He says he is willing to do the policy of joint agreement, but I also know that if im "too restrictive" he will want to do the opposite bc he will feel controlled. I'm okay if he goes out if I knew he could hold up the policy and i knew he wouldnt drink too much. (I dont think he hasa problem, he just wants to have fun and will get drunk normally when he goes out. not all the time, but normally.)

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Originally Posted By: AJC1
He is Unwilling to not go out when I'm not there. He says he would be alone all the time becasue all his friends go out and drink. (and to be honest...I dont know almost anyone we have met that does not at least in our training squadrons etc) But he tends to like the single guys anyways. He says he is willing to do the policy of joint agreement, but I also know that if im "too restrictive" he will want to do the opposite bc he will feel controlled. I'm okay if he goes out if I knew he could hold up the policy and i knew he wouldnt drink too much. (I dont think he hasa problem, he just wants to have fun and will get drunk normally when he goes out. not all the time, but normally.)

So you're ok with him going out to drink? If he has a problem with being open and honest to you why are you ok with him being in places he obviously can't handle.

If he thinks you're too controlling how do you think he is going to grow up?

Do you think he is ready for marriage? Do you think you can live like this?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I would not sign up for 6 more yrs (at least) of this and advise you to cut your losses. Your WH is immature and has never been good marriage material. There is no way for you to know what he is doing while deployed. Sorry but I only see more heartache for you.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Any tips how how to tell if he is sincere about changing things? I relaize at some point I am really going to have to make a decision, but there is still a huge part of me that wants the relationship if it can be turned into a positive thing.

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Originally Posted By: AJC1
Any tips how how to tell if he is sincere about changing things?


Based on what you describe? Not really. He has flat out told you he is not going to do X, Y or Z. And you admit he lies. With his choice of career, he will be gone and there will be no way to monitor/verify what he is doing. The military isn't going to babysit him. Military life is hard on good marriages. Yours has never been good.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By: AJC1
He is Unwilling to not go out when I'm not there.


I would be unwilling to agree to that since it is destructive to your marriage. Don't agree to that.

Quote:
He says he is willing to do the policy of joint agreement, but I also know that if im "too restrictive" he will want to do the opposite bc he will feel controlled.


In other words he is not willing to participate in the POJA if it means he can't engage in destructive behavior. That completely defeats the purpose.

The fact that he expects you to suffer on his behalf means he doesn't care about you.

Quote:
but I also know that if im "too restrictive" he will want to do the opposite bc he will feel controlled.


There you go. He will do the opposite as you said here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: AJC1
Any tips how how to tell if he is sincere about changing things? I relaize at some point I am really going to have to make a decision, but there is still a huge part of me that wants the relationship if it can be turned into a positive thing.


What about him leads you to believe he is marriage material? From what you have told us here, he is a very destructive person who has no intention of treating you with respect. He supposedly has a porn addiction and leads a single lifestyle. He refuses to engage in the POJA and if he knows something hurts you, he likes doing it.

So why would you even consider a marriage with such a destructive person?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: AJC1

I'm gone a lot recently bc i get help with the baby at home and travel a bit for work. (I dont have to travel I do choose to travel back home bc I get more help...now I'm living at home for the last month bc I was sorta trying the plan B as advised from a few couselors. He initally said he wanted a divorce and then a week and a half later said he wants to work it out and this past year and a half ish he has only been with me becuase of the baby. (we have only been married for almost 3 years with a 2 and a half year old.)


So you are separated from him?

The only reason to ever come out of Plan B is when your spouse agrees to the conditions that will make recovery possible. Your husband doesn't give a CRAP about your marriage, so you should stay separated and file for divorce. If he does a radical 180 degree change in the time it takes to get a divorce you could consider taking him back. If not, you will be divorced, which would be a good thing.

I am sure these counselors told you to go into Plan B because they know your husband is a bum.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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We are seperated at this time. When I wrote the seperation letter, I didnt have a clear idea of exactly what i needed him to do when it came to if he decided he wanted to try and work it out. (My main were to stop putting me down, no form of abuse however small, quit the small lies/not telling me things, and starting to do something to move fwd in the relationships..books, couseling, etc.) He has agreed to do the Love Busters & His Needs, Her Needs books so far. He has done all the quizzes and Im waiting for him to start reading the openness/honesty chapers to start with as that was my big thing. He said maybe one chapter a week bc he is busy with training.. smirk

Does that mean anything?

I don't believe in divorce, but I also relize it may come to that, so I'm having a hard time with that option...I'm going to try and set myself a timeline to make a decision. But, I dont want to file if there is hope it can turn around and be a positive relationship. (I grew up with a physical/emotionally abusive dad...not to me, but to the rest of the family, so I know I dont want a negative relationship for my son's sake if nothing else.)

Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: AJC1

I'm gone a lot recently bc i get help with the baby at home and travel a bit for work. (I dont have to travel I do choose to travel back home bc I get more help...now I'm living at home for the last month bc I was sorta trying the plan B as advised from a few couselors. He initally said he wanted a divorce and then a week and a half later said he wants to work it out and this past year and a half ish he has only been with me becuase of the baby. (we have only been married for almost 3 years with a 2 and a half year old.)


So you are separated from him?

The only reason to ever come out of Plan B is when your spouse agrees to the conditions that will make recovery possible. Your husband doesn't give a CRAP about your marriage, so you should stay separated and file for divorce. If he does a radical 180 degree change in the time it takes to get a divorce you could consider taking him back. If not, you will be divorced, which would be a good thing.

I am sure these counselors told you to go into Plan B because they know your husband is a bum.

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Originally Posted By: AJC1
We are seperated at this time. When I wrote the seperation letter, I didnt have a clear idea of exactly what i needed him to do when it came to if he decided he wanted to try and work it out. (My main were to stop putting me down, no form of abuse however small, quit the small lies/not telling me things, and starting to do something to move fwd in the relationships..books, couseling, etc.) He has agreed to do the Love Busters & His Needs, Her Needs books so far. He has done all the quizzes and Im waiting for him to start reading the openness/honesty chapers to start with as that was my big thing. He said maybe one chapter a week bc he is busy with training.. smirk

Does that mean anything?


It means nothing. None of that will give you a happy, safe marriage if your husband continues to engage in independent behavior. You should have a plan for recovery and it doesn't look you have any plan at all so far. You have agreed to things that will destroy your marriage. If you want to have a marriage, you have raise the bar so your marriage will last. Your marriage won't last based on what you told us.

You might not "believe" in divorce [I don't know what that means since you know that divorce is a very real event in this country - do you mean you don't LIKE divorce? No one likes divorce] but you are headed to divorce now.

If you want to recover your marriage, you are going to insist on a few things:

1. no more nights out with friends unless wife is there and she enthusiastically agrees to go

2. no opposite sex friendships

3. no more drinking unless at home

4. complete access to computer and cell phones - total transparency

5. commitment to the POJA and all other MB concepts

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent an affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled marriage that will end in divorce.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: AJC1
We are seperated at this time. When I wrote the seperation letter, I didnt have a clear idea of exactly what i needed him to do when it came to if he decided he wanted to try and work it out. (My main were to stop putting me down, no form of abuse however small, quit the small lies/not telling me things, and starting to do something to move fwd in the relationships..books, couseling, etc.) He has agreed to do the Love Busters & His Needs, Her Needs books so far. He has done all the quizzes and Im waiting for him to start reading the openness/honesty chapers to start with as that was my big thing. He said maybe one chapter a week bc he is busy with training.. smirk

Does that mean anything?


It means nothing. None of that will give you a happy, safe marriage if your husband continues to engage in independent behavior. You should have a plan for recovery and it doesn't look you have any plan at all so far. You have agreed to things that will destroy your marriage. If you want to have a marriage, you have raise the bar so your marriage will last. Your marriage won't last based on what you told us.

You might not "believe" in divorce [I don't know what that means since you know that divorce is a very real event in this country - do you mean you don't LIKE divorce? No one likes divorce] but you are headed to divorce now.

If you want to recover your marriage, you are going to insist on a few things:

1. no more nights out with friends unless wife is there and she enthusiastically agrees to go

2. no opposite sex friendships

3. no more drinking unless at home

4. complete access to computer and cell phones - total transparency

5. commitment to the POJA and all other MB concepts

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent an affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled marriage that will end in divorce.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.



It's disheartening to see such stellar advice get ZERO response from the beneficiary.

AJC1 .... Why not respond to Mel?

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I'm sorry! frown I'm back on the forums again now. I should have stayed on and continued checking the board.

It was very, very good advice. (Which i should have followed.) I ended up going back with all the things he promised bc I was too scared to file papers then. (I don't know why. I wish I would have now.) It's been a year, and he has finally agreed to go to counseling when I told him I don't love him anymore and I'm ready to file. ( I know now i really should have not come back before he committed to it all.) The only difference now is I have the same issues and well am prob causing more from my lack of wanting to work things out. He is truly trying more than he ever has (well trying to be nicer, helping with our son a little more, finally reading the books,and made a counseling apt for the free military/ doesn't go on his record) but it didn't happen quick enough so Im sooo close to filing for divorce bc I think it may just be too late for me to trust him again and maybe I'm just over it (I feel so bad typing this.) He still doesn't know if he could agree to no drinking when were part from each other bc well...when they de-brief they often do it at bars and well it's just the culture. (Ick) again I'm sorry for my lack of response, ill keep an eye out on the boards now.

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Are you going into Plan B?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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