You stated that it "should not be either/or" which implies that JD2D is wrong for feeling the way she does. That is disrespectful.

Have you re-read the chapter on disrespectful judgements this month?

You should continue to study.

Remark,

This program won't work and your marriage can't be saved if you continue to express disrespect for your wife's viewpoint like this. Any time you argue that you are right and she is wrong, you are being disrespectful.

Markos,

OK, I'll work on my skills are accepting her position on whatever the issue, and then decide if I can live with that or not. If I can't I politely say, "that doesn't work for me, can we discuss?" and go from there. That's what you mean, right?

Thanks,
Remark

Mark,

Let's try it this way...

If my husband really loves something or someone, and that relationship causes pain or negative feelings, or discomfort, or negative triggers for me...

Then as his wife, I tell him that his association with that person or thing feels horrible for me and leaves me feeling insecure and unsafe...

What do you think my husband should decide to do about those relationships or activities if he wants to be loving, caring, honorable and protective? What could he do to save me from the reminders and fear, and help me feel safe?

No, Remark, don't tell her that her "no" doesn't work for you or that her viewpoint doesn't work for you.

In this case don't even ask her because you know ahead of time it is not something she will enjoy. Look for things she will enjoy and don't express disrespect at her for not accepting the things you want to do (like have your family visit). She doesn't want to do that and she's not wrong or bad for feeling that way.

Here is what Dr. Harley told me about how to handle it when Prisca isn't enthusiastic about something I wanted to do:


Don't tell her "that doesn't work for me." Don't ask her to discuss it. She doesn't want to do it, she wouldn't enjoy that, so withdraw the request and come up with something she would enjoy. It won't involve your parents, so come up with a request that doesn't involve that.

Remark; can I make a suggestion? When you are trying to POJA something you need to start at the beginning, not in the middle. That means that if you are trying to set up a day out, you do not start by asking your wife if she would like to join a boating trip that you have already planned. You ask her first whether she has some free time and if she does, then whether she would spend it with you if you can both think of something you would enjoy doing.

Make your suggestions be things that she would like not things you would like. Let her come up with things you would like if she wishes to, she knows what they are.

I am married to a pleaser and I know how difficult navigating the POJA can be. A pleaser has a very hard time putting himself first. It does not come naturally. Then when it gets all too much, everything just boils over in a big steaming mess. You have to make it so safe that saying no is almost easier than saying yes; very gentle and super respectful.

Pay close attention to the two parts I bolded in Dr. Harley's response. You are under the same illusion I was. And if you can't think of any conditions that your wife would jump for joy at, withdraw your request.

Didnt,

He should give up that one relationship or activity. I understand that.

Thanks,
Remark

living_well,

Thanks. That makes sense.

I think I did that. I think I mentioned about a month ago that there are three weekends left before Labor Day (including Labor Day), and I'd like to take the boat out and I invited her thoughts. We have done a Labor Day trip with 5-6 other families every year to the same lake in Branson, MO. She was involved in the earliest levels of those thoughts/plans, I think.

I am trying to be a better planner, and not be so last-minute, impromptu in all our activities.

I think both JD2D and I are pleasers by nature, BTW.

Thanks,
Remark

Markos,

I read and re-read the bold parts, your last comments. That makes sense for functional couples.

I don't and haven't though, referenced my 'hurt feelings'. I'm simply to the point, where if she declines, I accept that and move on. Is that bad, given where we're at?

Thanks,
Remark

But you haven't moved on. Your family is still in the picture.

Ignore the hurt feelings part and pay attention to what Dr. Harley directs men like you and me to do: if you make a request and she's not enthusiastic, withdraw the request unless you can come up with modification to the request that you think she would be enthusiastic about.

In other words:
* don't ask her about having your parents visit; she is not enthusiastic
* after you've asked her about having your parents visit, and she has indicated she is not enthusiastic, withdraw the request
* don't say that it shouldn't be this way and JD2D is making it that way - that's what you told us above and it's profoundly disrespectful to your wife!

Prisca,

Let's leave the family out of it because I seem to be always bring them into the conversation, and I shouldn't.

Even if family was not in the picture, she said she'd divorce me for all my other warts. ( Toilet and van and boat and emotional affair, etc. )

Listening to the program everyday, I know not only what I am not doing, but what I am missing.

Thanks,
Remark

Remark, you need to quit making this mistake about your family. It is a very real and present problem.

The way men save their marriages is by eliminating mistakes one at a time.

We have talked with you about this mistake many times but you continue to repeat it. If you want to save your marriage you will need to stop repeating it.

Markos,

Then let's work on the other mistakes first.

Thanks,
Remark

How about you take our advice and focus on the things that are important, like this?

Markos,

Then let's work on the other mistakes first.

Thanks,
Remark


Because we cant.
This is it.
The big one that your marriage will die on.
Even if you fixed every other problem on earth and became perfect- but refuse to address this. Your marriage would fail anyways.

Your family comes before your wife-period.

Why bother? There is nothing we can do for you.

Its your choice.

Remark your two big issues are disrespectful judgments and independent behavior. Your actions regarding your family involve both.

If you want your marriage to succeed, all disrespectful judgments and all independent behavior need to be eliminated. There's not really anything else to work on as long as these are present.

Remark, this was a beautiful and loving description of your wife. Go with that. She is mother to your children. Can you visualize how lovely it would be if the two of you could enjoy your grandchildren together?


Remark,
I can totally understand that you are apprehensive and not quite enthusiastic about having conversations with your estranged wife.
I do not even think that conversation between the two of you is a fruitful idea. Conversation tends to be pleasant when people have good will towards each other. And good will develops after love bank deposits have been made.

Do focus on making love bank deposits in other ways, that involve no or limited conversation. I listed these ideas in a previous posting.
Does her car need repairing or a check? Propose to do that for her and do not be discouraged if she says no.
Ask your son for ideas about what she could use or would enjoy. It would also help your son to learn how to be caring about other people, to help him in future relationships.

Think about someone you do not like yourself. How could such a person wiggle their way into your life? What should they do to lure to into trips/dates with them?

If I were to give you a million dollars if you could get your wife to go to Disneyland with you, how would you do it?

Could you give me 3 ideas that you could propose to your wife?
__

Remark, a close-knit family seems to be very important to you. I notice that you have a blind spot though. One day, your children will be in your position. They will want to visit grandpa and grandma, which will be you and JDTD, with their children.

Please realize the consequences of a divorce on your future family: dividing Christmas between the in-laws, your house and JDTD's house, having awkward family functions, etc.

A close-knit future family is one of the positive effects of the worthy cause of reconciliation with JDTD.

A radio fragment that might help you, the difference between resentment type A and B is explained by Dr. H.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3589