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#2766788 11/19/13 11:41 AM
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My husband and I have been through three marriage counselors and one MB program.

I cannot even stand to be around him, let alone bring myself to fill his needs for Affection and Sexual Intimacy. Not even Conversation or Recreational Companionship. I feel contempt for him that I don't know how to will away. Everything that he tries (and he tries to do what he can) just makes me think "too little, too late". I don't know how to go through the motions of beginning to fulfill his needs when I don't even want to be near him. I just don't like him. I definitely don't love him.

I've spend enormous amounts of energy buying and reading marriage books, signing up for counseling and classes and whatnot. I don't have that energy anymore. I don't even want to try.

I think about all of my needs and I don't want him to fulfill any of them except for Family Commitment for the sake of our son. He does an excellent job at that, at being a father.

I've never really been happy in this marriage, but now it is just intolerable, and the idea of living in this intolerable situation for the rest of my life makes me cry myself to sleep at night and on the way to work. I feel like a simmering ball of resentment. If I had an opportunity for an affair I feel like it would be very easy for me to go on that path. I'd jump at the chance to kill this marriage for good and to feel something that I've been craving for years.

The only thing that makes me want to stay is that I love the idea of being married to the father of my child and having our son live in an intact household. But when it comes to the man himself, there is nothing. Or even worse than nothing.

I guess what I need to know is if there is any hope for saving a marriage when one spouse feels like this. If not, how do I convince him to separate peacefully (he is in denial every time I bring it up). If so...how do you overcome contempt?

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Originally Posted by MissingTheEros
We'll be celebrating our fifth anniversary next month. We have one 2 year old.

Yes, I've told him everything. He believes this is a case of me "rewriting history". He doesn't share my view that I've never felt passion for him. He thinks it's something I need to get over, since there I've told him there is nothing he can do differently to influence my feelings.

We are having some, how do you say, logistical conflicts when it comes to our careers and income. But these aren't easily fixable due to the job market. More importantly, I don't think fixing it, whatever that means, will fix this problem and it will cause him to stop doing a job he loves considerably (with no other lined up).

We hashed all of this out in the MB course and while we came to enthusiastic agreement about a course of action, the job market hasn't allowed us to pursue that and of course even when we came to that agreement I was happy and loved him and appreciated him, but still not feeling the romantic erotic love.

Sorry for the vagueness, I'm trying to be cognizant of the fact that this is a public forum. But I'm happy to provide further information.

I feel like over the course of our marriage it goes like this:
Me: I'm not happy in this marriage because the feelings aren't there.
Him: We need to fix it. What do we need to do?
Me: I don't know. The feelings aren't there. I guess I could use more [emotional need]
He does it and then I find that I am still not feeling the feelings, and feeling even more guilty because of the effort he puts forth. Then I identify something else that might be that elusive missing piece. And it's not it. And it keeps repeating.

If I were him I would be very frustrated and thinking "No matter what I do, I can't make her happy".

We have about 10 hours of UA each week. We don't have the financial resources to do anything except stay at home while the baby sleeps and talk or watch TV.

He is my best friend and I enjoy spending time with him. I just hate it when sex or talking about our relationship comes up.

This is your problem. You are not spending time together.
You should be spending 15 hours a week together , alone and without the child

Last edited by Jedi_Knight; 11/19/13 11:48 AM.
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Originally Posted by MissingTheEros
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
How often do you fantasize/masturbate?

Do you have a habit of ogling other men?

Do you view porn? Read romance novels? Watch a lot of romance movies, and ogle the men in those movies?


1) A few times a week.
2) No, I don't have that habit. Attraction is more than physical attraction and seeing a man walking down the street, however handsome, is not that big of a deal. The attraction to other men I have are men that I have known in my life.

3) No porn or romance novels. The books I read are fiction with romantic themes but none of that explicit stuff. I watch some romance movies but am under no illusion that romantic love is like in the movies.

Here is another problem, masturbation.
MB principles is Sexual Exclusivity. Your only sexual gratification should come from your husband.

Was this not covered in the course you took?

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I suggest you try the MB Coaching program.

If you follow the principles taught in the course you would be romantically in love

Why aren't you following them?

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Any time I spend with him makes me dislike him even more.

15 hours a week (which we cannot afford any babysitting or board games or anything other than keeping a roof on our head), sounds counterproductive.

We are living in a horrible state with a horrible cost of living and we have no friends or family to watch our son. We had to move because he can only live in places where there are "waves to surf". Both of them happen to be HCOL areas.

Is that really the answer? We tried to enforce it for a few months but it made me feel hugely resentful that what little free time I had was spent sitting down with him doing nothing.

I feel like the only thing that could save this marriage is space, and a whole lot of it.

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Quote
Here is another problem, masturbation.
MB principles is Sexual Exclusivity. Your only sexual gratification should come from your husband.

Yes, I have put this into practice. I would prefer to be celibate in every sense of the word than have sex with him, and so I mostly am.

Except for every week or two when I do engage in sex with him.

Last edited by MissingTheEros; 11/19/13 11:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by MissingTheEros
Any time I spend with him makes me dislike him even more.

15 hours a week (which we cannot afford any babysitting or board games or anything other than keeping a roof on our head), sounds counterproductive.

We are living in a horrible state with a horrible cost of living and we have no friends or family to watch our son. We had to move because he can only live in places where there are "waves to surf". Both of them happen to be HCOL areas.

Is that really the answer? We tried to enforce it for a few months but it made me feel hugely resentful that what little free time I had was spent sitting down with him doing nothing.

I feel like the only thing that could save this marriage is space, and a whole lot of it.

You have had NO Undivided Attention time together.
UA time is couple time.
I'm a single father of 3 kids. I'm familiar with babysitting issues and I'm confident you can get a babysitter.

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Quote
If you follow the principles taught in the course you would be romantically in love

Why aren't you following them?

I followed them from February to October and it has not worked. I just feel more resentful than when we took the class. He was trying to meet the needs he could with the funds that we have. None of that brought back any romantic love. It did help me feel some bland affection for him sometimes.

My most important needs are going unmet although his are fairly easy to meet. I no longer want to meet his needs, and he can't meet mine. Not for at least another two years.

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And there are plenty of low cost dates possible.
When planning a date, do something both would like to do.
On the Archive area of this forum (scroll to bottom) they have t hreads with 100s of dating ideas for little or no cost.

You alao have the Recreational Companionship surveys available to fill out and come up with ideas

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Originally Posted by MissingTheEros
Quote
If you follow the principles taught in the course you would be romantically in love

Why aren't you following them?

I followed them from February to October and it has not worked. I just feel more resentful than when we took the class. He was trying to meet the needs he could with the funds that we have. None of that brought back any romantic love. It did help me feel some bland affection for him sometimes.

My most important needs are going unmet although his are fairly easy to meet. I no longer want to meet his needs, and he can't meet mine. Not for at least another two years.

No, you have NOT followed them. You previously stated that you have NO time spent together as a couple (without the child)

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Why can't he meet your needs for 2 years?
What are your top 5 emotional needs?
He can't meet any of them?

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You have had NO Undivided Attention time together.
UA time is couple time.
I'm a single father of 3 kids. I'm familiar with babysitting issues and I'm confident you can get a babysitter.
Please explain. I am open to suggestions.

Our UA has been from about 7-11 each night after our baby goes to sleep.

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You did a MB program? Was it the online program? Did you have a coach?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by MissingTheEros
Quote
You have had NO Undivided Attention time together.
UA time is couple time.
I'm a single father of 3 kids. I'm familiar with babysitting issues and I'm confident you can get a babysitter.
Please explain. I am open to suggestions.

Our UA has been from about 7-11 each night after our baby goes to sleep.

Dr Harley does not consider that UA time. Technically you haven't had an hour of UA time probably since the child's birth.

UA time should be spent together doing things you both enjoy, when yiu feel good and are at your best. The same way people do when dating. On a date I wouldn't invite a woman over to eat nachos and watch TV. I would shave, dress nicely and go out and have a good time. That's what UA time is. Dating and meeting emotional needs while at our best, not at night in front of the TV

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Why don't you try the MB program for 3 months?
Dr Harley states (and his track record indicates) that you will be romantically in love if you follow his program.
Can you ask your husband to come here and post?

The forum can help guide you daily and you two could turn this around

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It was an in-class program in my hometown with our pastor and wife as the coach.

Long story:
Moved away from family and friends so he could be by surfing (following POJA). He found a job surfing that made next to nothing. He took it because he says he couldn't find anything else.

I found a full time job making 35K outside my field, which is little in such a stupidly high COL area. Put my son in daycare which I hated to do. Between the two we have no money left. And we shop at goodwill, have dumb cell phones, old cars, etc.

We worked opposite shifts: I worked M-F and he worked S and S. Fit those 15 hours a week in the evenings. Usually playing cards, reading the Bible, or coming up with conversation topics.

It wasn't working and I had *enough*. Told him I want a divorce. He agreed to quit his job so we could have weekends together and save on daycare. He is going back to school next fall for a year long program that should land him a decent job.

That was two weeks ago. I feel like it was a mistake to let him quit a job he loves when I think I'm already past the point of no return.

My five:
1) Financial support (unmet, he's made a recent decision to try and meet)
2) Family Commitment (he meets except for being a spiritual head of household. He hasn't done anything in this regard and says its because he had to work Sundays)
3) Recreational Companionship (can't afford anything outside the home and we have no friends or family here due to our move)
4) Affection in the form of tokens/gifts (can't afford a lot, he's tried to do what he can. Obviously it hasn't been enough)
5) Domestic support (he meets)

His five:
1) Affection in the form of physical (I used to go through the motions but now I can't stand to even hug and kiss him anymore
2) Sexual Fulfillment (we diligently stuck to a schedule but I can't stand it anymore)
3) Admiration (I've complimented him on his parenting and commitment but I feel so much contempt that it's hard for me to think of things to admire)
4) Other (he made this one up, it's surfing or being near a place he can surf. It's met here)
5) Openness and Honesty (I meet this, but I think it hurts him more than it fills his love bank)

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We know your story.
You posted it 4 months ago and received the same advice.

Are you willing to follow the MB program for 3 months? For the sake of your child?


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UA time should be spent together doing things you both enjoy, when yiu feel good and are at your best. The same way people do when dating. On a date I wouldn't invite a woman over to eat nachos and watch TV. I would shave, dress nicely and go out and have a good time.

I am having a hard time understanding how to afford this when we don't live near friends or family, in a HCOL area.

I am an excellent budgeter. Mint and Excel are my best friends. I can live on a shoestring budget easily in the Midwest, but here everything is stupidly expensive, including rent and utilities.

I've taken the class, and our pastor/coach said there is always a way to get in 15 hours. But he gave us the suggestions of UA while staying in after the baby goes to bed. We've been trying to be creative about ways to spend that time.

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Can contempt be overcome?

Our in laws flew into town this past weekend so we had a date night out, and I didn't really like his company in a restaurant, either.

Would that fade in time? Our pastor called contempt one of the four horseman of the apocalypse.

Edit: Feeling it, I mean. I would never speak contemptuous words. I'm sure it bleeds through in my attitude though.

Last edited by MissingTheEros; 11/19/13 12:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by MissingTheEros
Quote
UA time should be spent together doing things you both enjoy, when yiu feel good and are at your best. The same way people do when dating. On a date I wouldn't invite a woman over to eat nachos and watch TV. I would shave, dress nicely and go out and have a good time.

I am having a hard time understanding how to afford this when we don't live near friends or family, in a HCOL area.

I am an excellent budgeter. Mint and Excel are my best friends. I can live on a shoestring budget easily in the Midwest, but here everything is stupidly expensive, including rent and utilities.

I've taken the class, and our pastor/coach said there is always a way to get in 15 hours. But he gave us the suggestions of UA while staying in after the baby goes to bed. We've been trying to be creative about ways to spend that time.

The Pastors advice is not consistent with Dr Harleys guidelines.

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