It's common for women to be depressed in poor marriages. Dr Harley says it is the number one cause of depression in women. How can you be 'clingy' in a marriage? He is there to support you.



First off, don't assume what his motives are. It is for each individual to state what their motives are, not for others to guess at. Guessing and speculation are not helpful.

Secondly, it's harming you so it doesn't matter 'why'. It just needs to stop.



How on earth are you supposed to do that while holding your marriage together? You will never make progress in your career (or anything) until he stops attacking you. And so what if you don't?



But he did not vow to care for society. He is not supposed to be supporting stigmas.

He is supposed to be supporting and caring for YOU.

I can't think of anything worse than a husband who cared more for stigma than he did for me.

It must stop. Time to draw a line in the sand.

@ BrainHurts Thank you!... I emailed and received an answer. But its and international number. Wonder how am I gonna call. Replied back enquiring about it.

@indiegirl : Whatever you said I agree. I need to get away from all of this. I have loved him to bits and it was a great struggle us getting married against opposition and whatnot. It hurts my being.

If I agree to the child he seems happy and when I say no, he agrees but I'm subjected to verbal abuse and odd sexual behaviour.

He says i have "odd views" and if I have them I have a different place where he keeps me. He wants to make me something good in life but because of my odd views on life I'm gonna end up being a lesser being.

I feel like an idiot at times. I need validation for things when I feel low and I am feeling manipulated. I know that even if I want a child, this is not the way to have it. Writing to you guys I realize , the child is not the issue.. there is something deeper that is rankling me.
It's not earth shattering if I had a child although I am childfree. This attitude is hurting me.

Exactly, dear. He is abusing you. He is being demanding, disrespectful and angry. I believe this is the opposite of what he promised to do when you married, though I'm not familiar with the marriage vows in your culture - perhaps he did not promise to care for you.

Anyway, lots of people use 'society's standards' and sadly - religion - as weapons to abuse and control others. Your husband is one of them.

Think about this, dear: if he is willing to hurt and humiliate you about a child, it will never end. He'll always find a new thing that is "really important" to him - and he'll abuse you to try to get it. This is his pattern of relating, and unless he completely eliminates ALL control and abuse - you are better off running for the hills.

This isn't what marriage is supposed to be. Marriage is supposed to be a mutually beneficial, safe place of love and extraordinary care.

He is pooping in his own bed.

thank you Zhamila

This is my fault to a great extent. I am allowing abuse on my self.
I was a confident independent gal and now I allow someone to walk right over me. I have to first find the courage to get out of it.

He has humiliated me since the very beginning. The only difference is I have not seen it. He called me a "man" since the earliest because I had a mind, was outspoken and did not like jewelry.

I did a lot of traditional things while getting married to keep everyone's heart and that is being used as a weapon now.

Goodness is not common. I'm not perfect but I am about 99% sure I have not done any wrong to perpetuate this behaviour except that I accept it.

He has the high horse every single time pointing out my unmarried friends and how much a favour he has done for me.

It's far better to be alone and far more peaceful. If only I could break the shackles of my mind.

Poor dear. I have been exactly where you are now (one year ago). The most difficult part for me was to accept it was really happening, and to grieve the loss of the life I dreamt of. But truly, life IS more peaceful now. ((((hugs))))

I must disagree on one point: this is NOT your fault. He may blame everything on you (a classic trick) but please don't believe it! It is no more your fault than if a meteor fell on your house!

I admire your courage and strength to see what is really happening. You will do very well. I pray your family and friends surround you with love and support right now.

Zhamila thank you for being here taking out time...and letting me blab....

I have a lonely fight right now. In this society nobody divorces. It's just either one submits, usually the woman and life goes on.

He is not a bad person. And his external image is so good nobody would believe me. I have this image of a loner. Also not wanting a child is totally wrong. Something nobody is going to accept me for. They will tell me I'm wrong. I was very clear for this reason.
Also we had plans to leave this place for good. I cannot understand his motives for doing this now, just 6 months away.

He says that he supports every step of my way but then why say that I'm gonna regret my life when I'm 80???? Why call me a "man" a "transgender" just because I do not follow pre-defined roles???

And I need to find out what high stand are these selfless parents taking? He says they just want us happy... then why repeatedly insist on chldren when you know he and me are not interested? Shouldn't you be happy that we are happy?

Now he wants to live without me or his parents.. He wants nothing to do with either of us. Very well. I ought to get the hell out of here.

But I'm not always this strong. It's like as you said ...a dream shatterred.

Achoice,

Abuse is mind bending. Please don't believe this is your fault. It is not.

You are doing the best you can.

You have nothing to blame yourself for.

Along with others, I'll be reading and wishing you the very best.

hello ItCanGetBetter

Thank you for saying that. It means a lot. Its not the question of having the child or not. The question is of attitude.

I need to get out of the negative mindset and work towards becoming a more confident person.

A unrelated request to you guys.
I wrote the mail to Dr. Harley and received a very kind reply that she would definitely help me find a way.

I just was wondering how many days would it take for her to give me back an answer. I do not know when the radio shows are correctly. My time zone is different too. Sorry for the noob question. I must be asking something stupid because of the stress I'm under.

The show is at 12 noon, central time zone. Joyce will figure it out

What makes this extra-difficult is that not only is your husband being controlling and abusive, so are many of your friends and family. Do you have a friend (female) who is kind and understanding with you? It will help to have someone in real life to talk to as well.

And of COURSE he's not a 'bad person.' Abusers are not bad people - but they have deep-seated attitudes that cause them to hurt, humiliate and control others. They can be charming and kind at times. The problem is, the monster always comes out again.

Please google 'verbal abuse and control' - there are lots of resources, books and blogs that will encourage you! Abuse is (unfortunately) a very common problem, and it helps to know you're not alone.

And regardless of his motives in bringing this up - the fact is his words and actions are hurting you deeply. The "why" isn't as important as the "what" he is doing to you. I don't think you are safe - either emotionally or physically (especially sexually). You might consider building a plan to leave, then have a conversation with him, something like:

"Your actions are hurting me so much. When we married, you promised to care for me, and now you are hurting and humiliating me by your words and deeds. If you care for me, this behavior must stop, because it's killing my love for you. If you do or say (X) one more time, I will separate from you until you can prove to me that you've stopped behaving this way. I will no longer live like this."

There is a good chance that he will make the changes required if you separate. Especially if his family pressures him to stop being abusive (depending upon the social norms where you live - perhaps his abuse is seen as "a husband's right?" I don't know) Hopefully his family will encourage him to change, and you can enjoy many happily married years together!

thank you zhamila...
And I'm glad to hope that she will figure it out.

I really mean when I say I'm very broad in my approach to things. I never wanted a child. But I'm not scared or worried about having one. Just tell me in what way have I wronged you or kept hidden from you or anything!!Thats what I find most sad.

"Your actions are hurting me so much. When we married, you promised to care for me, and now you are hurting and humiliating me by your words and deeds. If you care for me, this behavior must stop, because it's killing my love for you. If you do or say (X) one more time, I will separate from you until you can prove to me that you've stopped behaving this way. I will no longer live like this."

You can't imagine how much I've repeated that to myself. I just don't have the courage to speak it out. I know he will ask me to leave. And he says only for my good or he believes I'll come to my senses and come running back to him.

I did not mean to say it's my fault in the manner of this whole thing. I meant to say its my fault that I'm not standing up for myself.

Accepting abuse is as good as giving abuse... I need to find strength friend .... that is my problem... I'm trying my best to work it out as much as possible... I also don't want to regret I didn;t try.
But yes I have to draw the line...

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with this. DOING something to hurt another person is MUCH WORSE than being a victim of hurtful words and deeds.

The reason so many people stay stuck in abusive relationships is because they start taking the blame for the situation.

Please do not listen to the blaming voices. These voices will not help you.

Think about it: When you talk about your culture, and the pressure applied toward what you 'should' do - from your family, his family, all of society - is it any wonder that you begin to believe you deserve the bad treatment? If a person has been abused and controlled their entire life, it's very difficult to believe any other reality exists.

It's like telling a fish to breathe air.

Your H is the ONLY person responsible for his abuse. Your desire to work on the relationship is a good thing. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, he will either change, or not.

Abusers have a very difficult time changing. They usually only change when they are threatened with losing their victim - and sometimes not even then.

Perhaps Markos can weigh in on the husband's perspective here? He has the "inside track," on what it took to turn his marriage around.


Ultimately, you know best. You know what you want, what you are able to live with, how and when. Listen to your own voice, and you will do just fine.

Hello Zhamila !! thank you

"Abusers have a very difficult time changing. They usually only change when they are threatened with losing their victim - "

That was an extremely interesting statement you made. I had an experience yesterday. I actually thought loads and told him I was extremely unhappy that I was causing hurt because of completely opposing views being placed and it wasn't possible living with this hurt anymore. He asked me what was my solution. I just said I couldn't live in a place hurting people who are important to me.
Then we had this social gathering where every single person was like "omg ! what's happened to ari..(me) ?? She's lost so much weight! " I just muddled through it saying that I had been travelling a lot.
In the evening he says that he too lied to people saying I was over- exercising (which I haven't been doing). Then he says I must be under tremendous stress for me to have lost health so much. I did not agree nor disagree.

Today his behaviour is dramatically changed. It was well behaved. Sex was normal like earlier. And things were positive for the future.

But I do not know how long this will last.But I had to tell you this because of what you said.

I introspected my own feelings without the emotions and realised a few things.
I am childfree. I have no hesitation in saying that. But I also
realised that was not what is hurting me the most.
The attitude is what hurts me. If once, just once he could have told me that.... Ari I understand you are not interested in children and you have always said that. But I have this great desire to have a child from you... probably I would have had 20 kids to just see a smile on his face.....

Instead of that... my parents want... the society wants.... you are not a woman... you are transgendered...you are not worthy of it etc etc etc abusive words hurt the core of my heart.....

If it's not too much to ask you... are my feelings wrong?.....

Thank you and love and hugs

1. Feelings are NEVER WRONG. Feelings are to be respected. If you feel hurt, it's because something is HURTING YOU and you should get away from that particular situation or person. Emotional feelings are the same as physical feelings: like being burned by a stove - should you keep sticking your hand on the hot stove? No. If your emotional feelings are of "pain" then get away from the source of pain.

2. Saying you'd have a child to make your H happy is 'sacrifice.' Sacrifice is NOT a MB concept. You should never do anything unless you're enthusiastic about it. (read about the POJA)

3. Giving an abuser what they want only encourages the abuse. Whether it's your H, his family, your family, people in your culture - abuse should not be encouraged. However, you must also think of your safety: sometimes abusers will punish you if you stand up to them or point out the abuse. You may just have to quietly remove yourself from the situation (like at the party - you just stayed quiet and maybe moved away to talk to someone else) in order to be safe.

4. Your H is capable of "being nice" for a few days or weeks at a time. This does NOT mean he has "changed." It just means he's being nice for a while. Until his fundamental attitudes and beliefs change, he will cycle right back into abusive behaviior. This is what keeps victims stuck: the belief that the person will be "nice" again. It will never stop - he will keep cycling - unless he makes a fundamental attitude change (which is VERY DIFFICULT - and sounds like the culture supports abusive behavior, so even more difficult!).

Please search online for resources that explain the patterns of abuse. What you are thinking and feeling is very common, and exactly what happens in every abusive situation. He may even apologize - sincerely. But it will go right back to abuse.

If you can keep a journal (in a safe place, where he won't find it), it may help you to see how many of these cycles you go through. And one day you'll realize that you don't want to do it anymore. I hope this happens before you're too torn down, weak and exhausted from years of suffering.

Hugs my dear, ~ Z

Zhamila you are here like an old friend lending me a shoulder
Thank you.

I understood each point you make. In a nutshell, you are asking me to trust my gut and believe in myself and not do something for the sake of appeasing people. I take that advice to my heart. Not because its easy. It's because someone who really cared about me would tell me exactly what you said.

The people who do not care about me are the ones who are going to give me lectures on sacrifice. Sacrifice is something one does willingly and happily. Not under coercion. Then thats fear and victimization.

You are right when you say "Until his fundamental attitudes and beliefs change, he will cycle right back into abusive behaviior. " .

I feel well right now. I am able to stand for myself and even keep people in their place.

But I am vulnerable when I am in the depressive periods. There is something I need to do to block people out during those low phases. That is the time when they take advantage of me. It isn't possible to go for counselling. Would you have any suggestions for that?

Thank you so much Zhamila for the confidence and care you show towards me. It means a lot ... and I mean a lot.

I'm so glad, I feel the same way about you! And I wish we lived near each other and could have lunch! That would be so fun

You are right, none of this is easy! Standing strong under oppression is one of the most difficult experiences in life: that's why people like Ghandi and Anne Frank are famous.

For depression, I would suggest trying to get antidepressant medication - are they available where you live? They've helped me to think more clearly, not be quite so vulnerable in my sadness, and stay graceful and strong when trouble comes. I use zoloft, but there are many options.

Please take care of yourself dear, and be safe. I wish I could hug you across the miles, but here's a small one

Love, Zhamila

halloa Zhamila !!

OMG I would totally love to hangout with you :-))... I think I'm gonna put that away as a dream to be achieved as I go stronger!

Your quiet strength is like an inspiration. You encourage me to believe in myself which is one of the most important things in this world.

The problem is I cannot go to a doctor here. I cannot even begin to tell you what would happen if I did that. Whatever little respect and confidence I have gained by standing for my beliefs right now would allllll be poured down the drain..... !!

Everyone and anyone will pounce on the wagon to pronounce me depressive and the reason I don't want a child or the reason I'm not overtly a believer in religion.

The fake it till you make it approach seemingly is working in my favour right now.Taking drugs as you say will help but I have to be discreet.

My only fear- don't get into a depressive phase right now...

And I hope everything is right with you.
Lot of love and regards and I feel your huggggggg totalllyy!!!!

Good morning, Ari!

If you feel nervous about taking antidepressants, there are a few other options that you might be able to do with little notice:

- A super-high dose of B12, (with magnesium and Vitamin D, if you can get it) has been shown to improve brain function in people with depression. It's safe and has no side effects, but please make sure it's the kind that will be readily absorbed by your body. Lots of vitamins are useless because they aren't digestible and you get no benefit.

- Exercise - improves your mood overall and supports brain function.

- Trustworthy friends - if you have friends who are safe, talking to them can help you lots.

In general though, the best solution is to avoid people who hurt you emotionally. Medication, vitamins and exercise are no substitute for being around supportive, caring folks - rather than around big meanies.

Over time, your body and mind will be worn down (sounds like you're already suffering physically) and you won't have the strength to go on. I have a friend like this: she's been in an abusive marriage for 30 years and is full of regret at her wasted life. But at this point she is too physically and emotionally beaten-down to make any changes. And they are now financially ruined: the one thing she felt made staying with him 'worth it' all these years is now gone.

It's a twilight of misery for her, and breaks my heart.

Is there anyone who'd support you in drawing a line with your husband? In telling him that his abusive behavior must end - or else? Who would help you separate if it becomes necessary, and help you decide if change has truly occurred?


Today's hug:

Zhamila !! :))

My ISP was down a bit :((

- A super-high dose of B12.. I like that idea!.. I've started eating better and responding better too. High dose meaning how many tablets per day?...

- Exercise I have started that toooo !!.. I'm challenging myself to the burpee challenges !!

- Friends - not really.. I don;t have any such friend I could talk to. But I have started talking to old friends unrelated matters. That itself calms me. To be able to talk to people about their lives atlease rather than sitting cooped up in negativity.

- Husband -- I know you will be happy to know that I drew the line myself. I was allowing him to speak to me badly without protest. This time I did not argue about the topic. I simply told him he was abusing me with names and I did not want it.
I told him it hurts and makes me angry and although I love him I categorically will steel myself and I will not live hurting myself and apparently hurting him to continue that kind of behaviour. He was taken aback and then agreed that he was indeed using abusive words.

Now whenever he goes in that direction I have steeled myself into meditating and continue with my work and do not cajole him till he is sensible.

I tested the waters and abused him to an extent myself (promise not much!!) to make him see how it feels. It made him terribly angry but he did realize the hurt it causes.

I don't know but right now it works and I'm just taking each day at a time. Atleast it gives me breathing space to get my stuff in order if and when I leave.

I'm working on that pesky self- confidence. No matter where or with whom I am I do not want to end up as that poor lady you described. Honestly talking to you made me realize that I'm strong and I do not need to take abuse in any form.

Deep bow... hugss and thank you...