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I am a 49 year old woman who has been engaged for four years to a man that I've known since we were 11. He has been married 3 times before me, has two adult children and one granddaughter. I have been married once (at age 19-27), and do not have children. Before our relationship, he lived in the same city as my family so we held a long distance relationship until he got a job that would allow him to work remotely and travel in between cities as well as one international trip. He has some things here in my home and some of things in the house his son rents, and the rest of his belongings in a city that is vacant and considered a summer house - a sort of get away place and is also a project house. The vacant house (meaning no other people live there) was my uncle's first home and he passed away 4 years ago from a stroke. My uncle left this house to my aunt who had no interest in maintaining it as a rent house, so my fianc bought it to add to his real estate portfolio for retirement. My aunt is only 15 or so miles away from this summer house so we visit quite often when we are in town. For the past 2 years (since his new position) he finds himself at the summer house for a week at a time and sometimes he'll stay the weekend to get some projects done. He and my aunt get along wonderfully. She's a great hostess, smart, engaging, funny, vivacious, always happy to see you, loves to dance, cook, and truly loves everyone like family. I am not always able to travel on the weekends, and certainly not during the week as I work a full time job in my city and maintain my own house. Until now, he never gave me any reason to suspect that he would cheat on me. He always told me how he behaves in a manner as if I was standing right next to him. And I believed him. We get along great and don't really fight or have arguments until a recent incident with his daughter caused serious conflict between us with opposing philosophies, but we were trying to work through them as best we could. I had been planning our wedding up until the issue with his daughter, then our plans had suddenly taken a back seat. I understand, but he never said anything to me about postponing our plans. i figured it was the right thing to do. Step back and let him try and work this out with his kids and granddaughter. We are really fighting about this situation and not really understanding each others' position and I'm just not feeling good about our future. It seemed to have stopped moving forward during this time. Not too long ago, my aunt calls me and we are having a conversation as usual. She and I are very close. She's my mother's twin and like a second mother to me. I am extremely close to her and always have been. She tells me during the conversation that my fianc touched her inappropriately one night six months prior to this very conversation. She lied and sugar-coated it. I called fianc who was out of the state during this revelation and confronted him about it. He lied and used the Jose Cuervo card. "I don't remember. Only putting her to bed and waking up with my clothes on. I don't have any details. I'm sorry." When I told him that I knew the details, and after three days of yelling, screaming on the phone about this, he finally admitted that he remembered and what had happened. Apparently, he put her to bed, and touched her with the intention of taking it further and got "close" and that was it. Nothing else. Nothing more. He swears. Aunt's story was totally different, but his is supposedly the truth. She wanted to be unburdened from his inappropriate advances and perhaps save our relationship. She begged me to forgive him. That nothing happened. It was just touching (eww) and he was drunk. And she was too. A year ago, after witnessing some pretty heavy smash dancing between the two of them (her on him) I told him that was disgusting. He wouldn't appreciate me dancing with a man like that, and I told him to not let it happen. Don't dance with her then if you can't keep a proper distance or at least tell her to stop hanging on you like that. He said he would. But he never did. And now, I have this horrible image of the two people I love the most, being more than inappropriate with each other. He's said he'd do anything. Counseling, whatever it takes, just to believe in him and know that he carries such shame and guilt and nothing like that has ever happened nor will it in the future. That I mean too much to him. That he loves me. Meanwhile, nothing is resolved with his daughter, of course there are no wedding plans going on, and while I want so bad with all my good heart to believe that he didn't do anything, I believe that if faced with the opportunity, in the right inebriated moment, on a right night, out of town, that he probably wouldn't turn down a semi-attractive drunk woman. And that is inexcusable. Bringing home disease and putting me at risk because he didn't make the right decision one night, like he did with my aunt. Time has passed for them, and they've continued on about their friendship since April 2013 when this happened. I've just learned about six weeks ago. And here I was thinking that everything would be all weird at Thanksgiving which was the first time they had seen or talked with each other since she told me. It was strained. She tried to talk to him, but he didn't have much to say. I, on the other hand, felt it awkward at first talking with her, but was able to move past it. She has culpability in this as well. I know this. We still move about our usual life, with him gone on travel for work, and I stay at my house, and other than him telling me he was looking for alternatives to counseling due to the failure rate amongst couples in infidelity counseling, he would let me know when he found something. I told him that time is precious and that this a time bomb. He has to be the one to fix this mess - not me! He calls more, is trying to be more "in tune" with my needs, but it doesn't feel right. I love him, but I don't trust him. Is this a savable situation? Can we survive this? Am I able to forgive him and believe him when he says that knows right from wrong and what doing the right thing actually means? I'm confused, angry and pissed as hell and I have to move about daily life with this. Is it the right thing for "us"? I wonder if he is/was looking to move on? He says no. I am waiting for him to find this website and make good use of it and make the right decision. I understand that some couples can forgive and move forward, but we always told each other all throughout our relationship that we were more than likely the type of people to NOT get over infidelity because we are so loyal to one another. And he was cheated on in one of his marriages. I just don't know what to do other than suppress it and hope that my mood is a good one, because I have been explosive at times -- quite often. If someone would have told me that this would happen to us, I would have called them a liar. I feel so stupid some days. And others, I feel sad and extremely disappointed. Let down. Today is not a good day for me.

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I'm sorry for your pain

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You may want to swap flexispy on his phone if you feel you have not enuogh info to make a decision. With his track record, I would suppose he is doing more when the two of you are apart.

For your own good, google the anger management link on this site, because it will be of benefit to you to keep collected at all times.


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After 3 divorces, do you really believe you can "fix" his behaviour? He travels away from you, he's been divorced several times, poor boundaries, this is more of a "what you see is what you get" deal. It would be foolish to become wife 4.

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The marriage is off, for sure! The ring is off of my finger even though he still wears his (off and on). I notice it, but don't ask about it. I told him last week that as each day passes I withdraw from him a little bit more. Don't wait too long to get us the proper help to obtain the skills to communicate effectively. I miss him terribly and I miss us the way that it used to be. Deep down I know that our relationship will never be the same. I struggle with repairing our relationship when there are so many other hurdles to jump over ahead of us.

Thank you so much for your replies. I'll read through the anger management link here, and I can assure you, I have no desire to become wife #4. The Setting of Boundaries discussion has happened more than several times but mainly regarding setting boundaries with his adult children. We sometimes agree to disagree and then he becomes selective about what to share with me knowing that I have a completely different view. Then tells me that "I didn't think you wanted to hear what was going on; I didn't want to stress you out; I didn't think you wanted to deal with my family drama...." etc., etc., etc.

If I found out that they had sex, then I'd kick him and his things to the curb. I don't understand why I would be willing to forgive and work this out when he clearly intended to have sex with her - but because it didn't (allegedly) get that far, I can work past it? I don't understand why I feel this way. I am strong, independent, and absolutely have no problem being alone. I pride myself on being selective and not taking crap from schmucks. I never have, and I'm not about to start now. I am too fabulous to be treated with this level of disrespect.

Wow! After writing this down, it has suddenly become crystal clear that I am not the right person for him or his family. He ruined what would have been a great relationship with me and my family.



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Originally Posted By: nightandday
I am a 49 year old woman who has been engaged for four years to a man that I've known since we were 11. He has been married 3 times before me, has two adult children and one granddaughter. I have been married once (at age 19-27), and do not have children.

Before our relationship, he lived in the same city as my family so we held a long distance relationship until he got a job that would allow him to work remotely and travel in between cities as well as one international trip. He has some things here in my home and some of things in the house his son rents, and the rest of his belongings in a city that is vacant and considered a summer house - a sort of get away place and is also a project house.

The vacant house (meaning no other people live there) was my uncle's first home and he passed away 4 years ago from a stroke. My uncle left this house to my aunt who had no interest in maintaining it as a rent house, so my fianc bought it to add to his real estate portfolio for retirement. My aunt is only 15 or so miles away from this summer house so we visit quite often when we are in town. For the past 2 years (since his new position) he finds himself at the summer house for a week at a time and sometimes he'll stay the weekend to get some projects done. He and my aunt get along wonderfully. She's a great hostess, smart, engaging, funny, vivacious, always happy to see you, loves to dance, cook, and truly loves everyone like family.

I am not always able to travel on the weekends, and certainly not during the week as I work a full time job in my city and maintain my own house. Until now, he never gave me any reason to suspect that he would cheat on me. He always told me how he behaves in a manner as if I was standing right next to him. And I believed him.

We get along great and don't really fight or have arguments until a recent incident with his daughter caused serious conflict between us with opposing philosophies, but we were trying to work through them as best we could. I had been planning our wedding up until the issue with his daughter, then our plans had suddenly taken a back seat. I understand, but he never said anything to me about postponing our plans. i figured it was the right thing to do. Step back and let him try and work this out with his kids and granddaughter.

We are really fighting about this situation and not really understanding each others' position and I'm just not feeling good about our future. It seemed to have stopped moving forward during this time. Not too long ago, my aunt calls me and we are having a conversation as usual. She and I are very close. She's my mother's twin and like a second mother to me. I am extremely close to her and always have been. She tells me during the conversation that my fianc touched her inappropriately one night six months prior to this very conversation. She lied and sugar-coated it.

I called fianc who was out of the state during this revelation and confronted him about it. He lied and used the Jose Cuervo card. "I don't remember. Only putting her to bed and waking up with my clothes on. I don't have any details. I'm sorry." When I told him that I knew the details, and after three days of yelling, screaming on the phone about this, he finally admitted that he remembered and what had happened. Apparently, he put her to bed, and touched her with the intention of taking it further and got "close" and that was it. Nothing else. Nothing more. He swears.

Aunt's story was totally different, but his is supposedly the truth. She wanted to be unburdened from his inappropriate advances and perhaps save our relationship. She begged me to forgive him. That nothing happened. It was just touching (eww) and he was drunk. And she was too.

A year ago, after witnessing some pretty heavy smash dancing between the two of them (her on him) I told him that was disgusting. He wouldn't appreciate me dancing with a man like that, and I told him to not let it happen. Don't dance with her then if you can't keep a proper distance or at least tell her to stop hanging on you like that. He said he would. But he never did. And now, I have this horrible image of the two people I love the most, being more than inappropriate with each other. He's said he'd do anything. Counseling, whatever it takes, just to believe in him and know that he carries such shame and guilt and nothing like that has ever happened nor will it in the future. That I mean too much to him. That he loves me.

Meanwhile, nothing is resolved with his daughter, of course there are no wedding plans going on, and while I want so bad with all my good heart to believe that he didn't do anything, I believe that if faced with the opportunity, in the right inebriated moment, on a right night, out of town, that he probably wouldn't turn down a semi-attractive drunk woman. And that is inexcusable. Bringing home disease and putting me at risk because he didn't make the right decision one night, like he did with my aunt. Time has passed for them, and they've continued on about their friendship since April 2013 when this happened. I've just learned about six weeks ago.

And here I was thinking that everything would be all weird at Thanksgiving which was the first time they had seen or talked with each other since she told me. It was strained. She tried to talk to him, but he didn't have much to say. I, on the other hand, felt it awkward at first talking with her, but was able to move past it. She has culpability in this as well. I know this.

We still move about our usual life, with him gone on travel for work, and I stay at my house, and other than him telling me he was looking for alternatives to counseling due to the failure rate amongst couples in infidelity counseling, he would let me know when he found something. I told him that time is precious and that this a time bomb. He has to be the one to fix this mess - not me! He calls more, is trying to be more "in tune" with my needs, but it doesn't feel right.

I love him, but I don't trust him. Is this a savable situation? Can we survive this? Am I able to forgive him and believe him when he says that knows right from wrong and what doing the right thing actually means? I'm confused, angry and pissed as hell and I have to move about daily life with this. Is it the right thing for "us"? I wonder if he is/was looking to move on? He says no.

I am waiting for him to find this website and make good use of it and make the right decision. I understand that some couples can forgive and move forward, but we always told each other all throughout our relationship that we were more than likely the type of people to NOT get over infidelity because we are so loyal to one another. And he was cheated on in one of his marriages. I just don't know what to do other than suppress it and hope that my mood is a good one, because I have been explosive at times -- quite often. If someone would have told me that this would happen to us, I would have called them a liar. I feel so stupid some days. And others, I feel sad and extremely disappointed. Let down. Today is not a good day for me.


nightandday, welcome to MB! I am glad that you are feeling more clarity and peace now. Stick around I think it's great to learn more about what you are bringing to a relationship and what you are looking for.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Originally Posted By: nightandday
. He's said he'd do anything. Counseling, whatever it takes, just to believe in him and know that he carries such shame and guilt and nothing like that has ever happened nor will it in the future. That I mean too much to him. That he loves me.



1. Commit to NC for LIFE with your Aunt. Including a handwritten NC letter in the MB format which addresses the disrespect to you and his commitment to repair the hurt he has caused to you.

2. Sell the country house.

3. Quit the traveling job and find one that does not require travel in the same city as you.

4. Take a polygraph to prove his honesty. I don't know why you believe there was no sex since he has already lied about the incident until he found out your Aunt talked to you.





These are just a few of the conditions that are required to recover from infidelity. Just ask him if he will meet your conditions. Tell him that it is the minimum that you will accept to keep you interested.


If he agrees and then actually does the things above, then you might have a chance. I know my own FWH was able to turn himself around...so I know that people can redeem themselves.

His actions concerning your conditions will tell you if he is serious about your relationship or not. Do not give on any one of the conditions.

Last edited by pokerface; 12/04/13 06:51 PM.

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Very good for seeing he failed the interview for marriage. Dr. Harley says dating is the interview for marriage.

Stick around and learn MB it will help you in every relationship including the one with your aunt.

Read this.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Also, is he an alcoholic?

This will also help. Anger Management 101


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hello - I'm not familiar with the acronyms and couldn't find them right away. I know he has a drinking problem. He told that he *might* have drinking problem when I first learned about him and my aunt. My aunt definitely has a drinking problem and it has caused our family quite a bit of distress - but the line, that fine line, was never crossed. As far I *knew*. Now, I don't believe either one of them.

This is what alarms me the most; he has proven to me that he'd be with any woman who showed him the slightest bit of affection. Maybe he has. I would never know. He has always been so good to call me and let me know what-where-how that it never crossed my mind that a situation could escalate the moment we say goodbye. I never gave it one single thought. Most certainly with my beloved aunt. He never would have told me if she hadn't. That's deception. And the fact that she told some [censored]-a-mamey story that changed twice, says something else that I can't articulate at the moment. I don't know what to believe. Or if his admission of what happened was the complete truth. I have a strong, strong feeling that the story he told was altered to spare me any further hurt. More now than ever.

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Here you go.
Acronyms and Abbreviations

Did you break up with him? Do you live together?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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You've been given very good advice here. If it were me I would cut my losses with both of them, but that comes after a lifetime of being hurt and having learned the hard way. You're not married and have no obligation to try to make things work.

I think he's already shown you what he's made of...and unfortunately you've learned the same thing about your aunt. frown

Good luck to you!


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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BrainHurts, thank you very much for the acronym list. Yes, we live together, but because his job requires him to travel, he's often gone 2-4 days of the week - not every week, but he does travel quite a bit.

Kaycstamper - thank you very much for your reply. I agree that I have been given excellent advice on this forum. Not one day has passed that I don't think about how easy it would be to walk away from their mistake. My decision with him is to see how he will handle this and what steps he'll take to move our relationship forward. I would like for him to go through the MB program with me, but in order to do that I have to disclose what I've published on this forum. I am apprehensive of him reading what I've written. Right, wrong or indifferent, it feels scary to me for him to read the story in my words although he is quite familiar with my in-person reaction(s). He told me that he is interested in Mort Fertel and will be "talking" with me soon about his choice of program. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, and I wonder if it covers the BS like MB does. I'll wait to see what he shares with me on Fertel's site. I hope soon. I love him very, very much and while I (can) imagine life without him, I'd like to give him the opportunity at a second chance. Some days I feel like an insane person for thinking this, but the feeling of forgiveness and love outweigh the anger and the insane thought of not giving up on us.

Last edited by nightandday; 12/09/13 12:34 PM.
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I just sat down to read MB for today and saw your post.

Here is a link to a MB thread discussing Mort and his program.mort fertel


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

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I haven't heard of Mort Fertel, I'll take a look at the link when I get some time. Right now I'm dealing with frozen pipes, leaky faucets, getting wood in, etc.


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Pokerface - hello, and thank you for the link to the discussion re: Mort Fertel.

Yeah - Mort's program isn't gonna fly. I don't agree with Mort's methodology one bit. As unbelievable as it is, WS has yet to acknowledge his behavior (face to face) and LEAD us into recovery. Not one word has he spoke about the incident since the last phone conversation. And, he's had plenty of opportunities. He has been more attentive and more engaging, but because I'm not seeing progress for "us" I don't usually engage back. Not that I'm rude, or ugly - but I know that he notices that I'm waiting. and waiting. and waiting.

Kaycstamper - stay warm!

Thank you for your help and insight.

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Originally Posted By: nightandday
As unbelievable as it is, WS has yet to acknowledge his behavior (face to face) and LEAD us into recovery.


That is not surprising at all... it is often the norm. I am surprised however that you think HE can lead any type of recovery. That is like the drunk driving the car."MelodyLane"


Originally Posted By: nightandday
He has been more attentive and more engaging, but because I'm not seeing progress for "us" I don't usually engage back. Not that I'm rude, or ugly - but I know that he notices that I'm waiting. and waiting. and waiting.


He is noticing that you have done nothing and thinks he can sweet talk his way out of this. He also has NO IDEA what is required to recover or EARN back your trust.


I know this is a marriage building site and that you are not married but I hate to see you waste one more second on someone who lives a lifestyle that is prone to affairs. He can't even commit to a permanent place to live.



I posted this to you earlier.
Here are a few of the conditions that MB requires and I only posted a few because I don't think he will commit to even the minimum.

1. Commit to NC for LIFE with your Aunt. Including a handwritten NC letter in the MB format which addresses the disrespect to you and his commitment to repair the hurt he has caused to you.

2. Sell the country house.

3. Quit the traveling job and find one in the same city as you that does not require travel.

4. Take a polygraph to prove his honesty. I don't know why you believe there was no sex since he has already lied about the incident until he found out your Aunt talked to you.



If he agrees and then actually does the things above, then you might have a chance.

All the conditions that made an affair possible must be closed. Without that you will be living in constant fear of another affair. You deserve better and you need to take the lead and control of your life. Don't waste time on someone who spends their life committing to nothing.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered


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