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Joined: Dec 2013
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Hi there,
Many of you who are following my WW post "My Story - I am the WW" know a lot about what has happened. I am the H trying to make sense of everything. Interesting enough, when the EA started and she admitted it to me a couple days later - my first response was "I am sorry"...I was sorry for not being the husband she needed me to be. At first there was no remorse, no guilt, no apology at all from her until after the PA. I remember her words to me -
"I really want to work on this marriage but I don't think you will want to." - then she told me what had happened two days previously.
I was shocked, appalled, angry, my first thought was "NOW you want to work on the marriage after you have sex with him???" Why would I want to do that now??? Why did you have to take it to the next level? Why? Why? Why?????
Since then - I have been on a roller coaster ride of thoughts, feelings - a whole lot of tears, sobbing at times on my own in private, just not understanding a whole lot. I've grown in a lot of ways too - trying to understand what I can do to get her back. Yes - I want her back - yes - I want it to work out between us, yes - I love her.
We spent a weekend away - just the two of us and had some amazing conversation. Since then there have been some other things she did prior to her last contact with the OM that hurt me even more. It was hard to hear her talk about him about how much she missed him and wanted to be his friend. With that said - it has now been 11 days since she last had contact with him (according to her - and I believe her), and she definitely has up days and down days.
Regardless of how things work out - I wanted to share my story...
As some of you know - I have been a WH - I cheated on my first wife for over 5 years before I finally admitted to the affair. She suspected from the beginning and I was the classic denier - deny, deny, deny. She had no real proof and I just kept feeding her lie after lie after lie.
Once that relationship was over - I met my current wife and I know now that it was probably WAY to soon to get into a new relationship but I did and that is what it is.
I have been reading some of the posts that have come from many of you to my WW and I certainly appreciate the candid thoughts and the advice.
At this point, we are getting therapy as a couple, we are using EFT a lot in our issues that have surfaced but we are far from having a full recovery - it's just way too fresh and I think everyone here knows that including the both of us.
What I am finding is it is so hard to remain positive, I am trying to support her through all of it and I really want to work hard. I guess I have a question for you who have been the BS - how do you get the image out of your head of your WS and the OM/OW having sex? It keeps coming back into my head and it makes me angry to think about - it shatters my resolve to keep going and then gets me thinking about if I can trust her at all? Should I take her phone away from her? Should I be monitoring her cell phone calls and all this other stuff!! She is off of FB but there is still the lagging doubt in my mind. I don't want to do all those things because I feel it is going to take us back so far that we won't be able to move forward.
I hate myself for having these thoughts - I want to be able to believe her and trust her and I know that her primary need is openness and honesty - that's why she told me about all the stuff that happened so quickly after it did happen.
I think we are not the typical couple that has had a spouse cheat - she didn't have to tell me - I would never have suspected anything.
So anyway - that's my post - I fully expect to hear all kinds of responses and I look forward to exploring the feelings that come up on this forum and how we can recover together.
Also - please don't get me wrong - I don't want to say that we are some kind of "super couple" where the rules don't apply to us - from what I can see the steps to go forward are universal in nature and there are really no exceptions - I guess I just want to be able to get there faster...and that may be unrealistic. With that said, I also believe that there are all kinds of helpful things out there. We have become so dependent on each other that we lost the ability to become individually happy. That is where we really want to work right now. And I think we are making some progress there - although it is VERY SLOW!!!
Thanks for reading - looking forward to your responses...
___________________
BH (me) - 44
WW - 32
2 DD - 2.5 & 11 months
Together for 11 years - married for 7
D-Day #1 & 2 - Nov 14 & 15/13
D-Day #3 - Nov 25/13
Last Contact with OM - Nov 29/13
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Welcome. Also - please don't get me wrong - I don't want to say that we are some kind of "super couple" where the rules don't apply to us - from what I can see the steps to go forward are universal in nature and there are really no exceptions - I guess I just want to be able to get there faster...and that may be unrealistic. The fastest way to recovery is to strictly follow the rules and not do any cherry picking or corner cutting. Those who pick and choose what part of the program they want to follow, and those who try to cut corners by skipping steps that "don't apply" will have a harder time in recovery (many never recovering at all). Dr. Harley says that if you follow the program, most people will fall in love in 6 months, and will have trust restored by 2 years. With that said, I also believe that there are all kinds of helpful things out there. We have become so dependent on each other that we lost the ability to become individually happy. That is where we really want to work right now. And I think we are making some progress there - although it is VERY SLOW!!! Becoming "individually happy" will not recover your marriage. Work on falling in love with each other and building an integrated life, and you WILL be happy.
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What I am finding is it is so hard to remain positive, I am trying to support her through all of it and I really want to work hard. I guess I have a question for you who have been the BS - how do you get the image out of your head of your WS and the OM/OW having sex? It keeps coming back into my head and it makes me angry to think about - it shatters my resolve to keep going and then gets me thinking about if I can trust her at all? Should I take her phone away from her? Should I be monitoring her cell phone calls and all this other stuff!! She is off of FB but there is still the lagging doubt in my mind. I don't want to do all those things because I feel it is going to take us back so far that we won't be able to move forward. Hi Bryan, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here but please be assured you are in the right place to fully recover your marriage. This program is the only program I am aware of that really works. It is very different in that it consists of a step by step action plan. To answer your questions, it is a good idea NOT to trust her. It is a good idea to monitor everything she does because this will help you create trust. I can't think of anything that creates trust MORE than snooping on her to see what she is doing when she thinks you are not looking. Dr. Harley addresses how to build trust in this article:
How Can Trust Be Restored After An Affair?
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D. And don't worry about those images! As long as you follow this program and a) affair proof your marriage and b) create a romantic relationship, those horrible thoughts will be replaced with good times and happiness. When that does not happen, though, resentment and bitterness grows as the years go on. But when a person is happy in the present, their mind does not tend to go to the tragedies of the past.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am posting the posts I made to your wife: Rainheaven, please ditch that book and focus on marital recovery. There is a very strict path back to recovery and most do not make it. If you don't follow the steps in the MB program you will end up divorced or worse yet, in a marriage filled with bitterness and resentment. Unless you create an affair proof, romantic, passionate marriage NOW using these concepts, you will end up in a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage; you will both be MORE vulnerable to an affair than before. So, please take a serious approach to recovery and follow these steps. Individual counseling and books like "surprised by love" are a distraction from working on your marriage and won't help your marriage. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist with 40 years experience specializing in saving marriages from infidelity. His program really does work. I will give you an outline of his program in this post and an extraordinary precaution list in the next: " The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Hi, Bryann, Welcome to Marriage Builders. It's a great place to be, but we are sorry for the circumstances that bring you here. I noticed your comment about wanting to recover quicker - that's great! But I'm a little worried that by recover you mean "get to a place where we don't have to do these things any more." If so, I'd warn you that's a dangerous position to take. Dr. Harley built his Marriage Builders program by studying successfully married couples. He developed a scientific way to test whether they were in love or not, and studied what was common to the marriages where both husband and wife are in love. Everything else has been stripped out. For example, a couple might claim their success is because the husband has a glass of wine every night, but since not every successfully married couple does that, it's not in the program. Everything here is the things people do in successful marriages. If one of those points gets left out, the marriage almost invariably fails. So, for example, Dr. Harley recommends extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair. He and his wife both follow these precautions even though neither one of them has an affair. And in fact, successfully happily married couples all do this! Likewise for the other points of the program: avoiding abusive behaviors like selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts; avoiding dishonesty and independent behavior; practicing transparency; spending fifteen or more hours a week giving each other your undivided attention and meeting your most important emotional needs. Marriage Builders isn't just a recovery program: it's a guide to what happily married couples do. The new habits here become ways of life for us who use the program and succeed, even those who haven't had an affair in their marriage. And it works! How Dr. Harley Learned to Save MarriagesRomantic Love: Is It A Realistic Goal For Marriage Therapy?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Bryann,
One point is that one affair does not justify another or somehow cancel each other. So your WWs affair is not payback for your affair on your first wife.
how do you get the image out of your head of your WS and the OM/OW having sex?
Your WW had a threesome? Have both the OM and OW been exposed? Have you confronted them?
God Bless
Gamma
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Hi Gamma, Your WW had a threesome? Have both the OM and OW been exposed? Have you confronted them? Oh my goodness - no - that was just a general question to everyone out there. No threesome!!!
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Bryann,
Ok, that makes it easier on you, but have you exposed the OM or confronted him? I read that he is separated, which means OM is still married.
God Bless
Gamma
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Please understand I am NOT saying that this book is not an amazing piece of literature that will truly help us out. But the comments made to my wife have battered and bruised her emotionally so that she is withdrawing from even talking about her feelings with me - her husband. Bryan, I get the sense that you would do anything to avoid conflict with your wife. Let me share with you a thread by one of the best Marriage Builders of all time, Pepperband: Conflict avoidance is the kiss of deathDr. Harley says he and his wife Joyce have, on average, one conflict an hour. And they are together 20+ hours a day!! Yet they have a very happy marriage. How is that possible with so much conflict? It is because they know how to resolve conflicts by finding solutions that make both husband and wife happy, without fighting at all. It is a wonderful skill when you get the hang of it, and it is taught here at Marriage Builders. Conflicts are inevitable between any two people, especially people whose perspectives are starting from the very different point of being male and female. There is no way to survive without learning to handle conflicts without fighting. And there's no need to run from them when every conflict ends in a win. I encourage you not to shy away from tough subjects in your marriage, to tackle the tough conflicts together and affair proof and recover your marriage. I hope you're reading these great links I'm sharing! 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Welcome Bryann.
When I first got here, I had a 'pick and choose' attitude too. It's natural, we want to try before we buy in. I agreed with every piece of advice but one. Therefore i followed MOST but not all of the MB programme.
If I had followed that ONE piece of advice I would have prevented the infidelity in my marriage or stopped it sooner. I've learned than when Dr Harley says to do something, it's because he feels it is unavoidable to prevent harm and he is usually right.
In the two years since then I realise he has cut his program down to the bare necessities. He doesn't ask you to do anything that isn't totally vital. It runs like a recipe - if you leave one thing out it is like a cake without flour.
Marraiges don't work without PoJA, PoJA doesn't work without Radical Honesty, etc
I hope my experience in 'cutting corners' helps you avoid this mistake.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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