I'm not trying to be stubborn, I definitely can see the merit in moving. It's just something I really don't want to do and something that I'm not sure is the right decision for our family. I would have to feel like it was God's will for us in order for me to feel comfortable doing so.

That being said, it is an option I will definitely keep on the table.

Also, as a serious question. Once we reach recovery, if we keep following the MB principles, is there really a chance for an affair to rekindle?

RL,

If you are not going to move then you need to expose the OM massively suddenly and without warnings or threats! The OM attacked your sons family please remember that, even if your WW never comes back to you entirely you have to do this for your son.

If the OM had slapped your son you would likely chop his arm off, how much worse is OMs attempt to destroy your sons family?

The OM is a drug to your WW and just as an alcoholic can never go into a bar again your WW can never see the OM again. And the thing about this OM is that he sounds very self centered and will reach out to your WW when he needs her or the mood strikes.

God Bless
Gamma

One of the key MB principles is to take extraordinary precautions to AVOID ever seeing the affair partner again, even if it means moving to another state or city. If she sees him again, it will rekindle her feelings. And if she misses him, he is right there close by.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

In other words, as soon as there is any kind of contact, ie: chance encounters, etc, the affair is likely to rekindle because her feelings will be triggered. Even driving past him on the street is enough to start up an affair again.....years later.

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. He must certainly not work with his former lover and should probably live in some other city or state. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Well that sucks...so is there such a thing as "recovered".

It's not just affair partners though. It's the same reason you can't be friends with an old girlfriend or boyfriend either. In MB terminology, that person has an account in your Love Bank that will never close.

RL, you will understand the nature of affairs if you equate it to alcoholism. . An alcoholic cannot ever drink again if he wants to recover. With marriage, you can recover, but you can never go back and allow the same things in your lives that led to the affair in the first place.

If by "recovered" you are asking whether all feelings for the affair partner will one day, given time and a happy marriage, be dead then no, in a typical affair that will never ever happen.

If someone has had affairs (more than likely more than one affair) that involved an attraction only to conquest - to the feeling that he or she is attractive enough to get random people into bed - to the feeling that he or she has an "it" factor and can "pull" with relative ease - well then you've got a different addiction problem that will be just as hard to kill, but the problem there is not an attraction to one person.

However, if the affair was a more typical one in which an attraction was formed to one person, then whether it lasted two weeks or 5 years, the feelings between those two people will never completely die, even if the affair ended badly.
If the affair ended badly, it is still a fact that they had good times together, enhanced by the circumstances of an affair - the feeling of unhappiness in the marriage, the feeling of a secret pleasure, the feeling of us against the world. There were intense feelings during that affair no matter how badly it ended.

If the affair ended when it was going well, with a D Day discovery by a BS, then the WS has been forced to give up the affair and there is no reason why the feelings for the AP would ever be tainted. The WS has been forced to make a choice, and perhaps always knew the choice they would make - for the marriage - but that choice does not affect their feelings for OP. Why would it?

In time, some of the addictive patterns in the affair will die away; looking for text messages several times a day, some form of contact with the OP every single day, sex talk with that person daily, flattery and admiration being exchanged several times a day, going to hotel rooms twice a month...there will be a great gap when those practices stop and a huge feeling of withdrawal, but that will pass. The constant sense of missing someone, and missing the affair, will fade. With an MB recovery, the sense that the marriage is dead and that the married couple has lost their love will be reversed and the marriage will be great, and the feelings for OP will cease to be invoked, but they will still exist at a very low level and can still be ignited with contact.

In a typical affair, most people of the opposite sex are not an instant threat to the marriage; a relationship with them has to be built first. However an OP is immediate and deadly threat to the marriage, and accidental contact is a terrible risk to take.

RL,

About what Melody said, a few weeks ago I was talking to an older lady who had an alcoholic husband who was in AA and had been sober for decades.

She said that you are always an alcoholic, and that the alcoholic will always think they can stop before they get as bad as they did the last time, but that they do not have that control once they start they will end up at rock bottom for a 2nd or 3rd time. Again replace the word alcoholic with cheater.

The OM too has an addiction to your WW, and will call on her in his time of need. Your exposure of OM will essentially burn down the bar where he used to drink.

This summer I engineered a meeting of my W and OM2 just to try and trigger some confession out of my W. OM2 after 20+ years was instantly drawn to my W and gave her a hug, so the feelings can endure for a long long time.

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks for all the responses, that is just really disheartening. I don't want to feel like I will need to be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life.

This is exactly correct. Everybody has an account in the Love Bank - and any contact will bring that back to the forefront, make deposits, and risk reigniting the affair. Any contact. Casual contact and "business only" relationships is how affairs start all the time, and it is also how they restart.

Plus - additional contact is just traumatic and offensive to the betrayed spouse. The FIRST thing that's got to be done to compensate the betrayed spouse for what they've been through is to never see or talk to the former lover again. Compensation can't be made if you keep sticking the knife in over and over again.

This doesn't mean that there is no such thing as recovered! Not at all! It's just that recovery doesn't mean you can continue the same risky and painful behavior.

If you get run over playing chicken and survive and recover, recovery doesn't mean you can go continue to play chicken.

RL,

This is equally true for yourself!

The fact that your WW says the sex was better with OM and she still has admiration for OM put YOU in a position of vulnerability to the attentions of women even more so than before.

God Bless
Gamma

Unfortunately, you are right. I have noticed myself having a rush of emotion whenever a woman shows me any sort of special attention right now. I can't imagine myself ever doing this to my wife and family, especially since I've been on this side of things, but no one does. I will be vigilant in fighting any emotion that is slightly wayward and take EP to prevent opportunities from existing.

Do you have any advice on how to fight those feelings/thoughts in my wife (about the sex/admiration)? Do these things heal as part of the MB plan?

Also, despite my being a little disheartened at the moment, my wife and I have been reading SAA and it is really helping. Her attitude is definitely changing for the better and she recognizes what she's feeling. She also is beginning to have hope in our relationship again.

I think she is still going through withdrawal though. I've planned a few events for us that she has let fall through (I bought salsa lessons for us, she told me she would get babysitting and then didn't). I'm not sure if I should "force" her to go or if I should wait until she is ready. I think once we were out together she would have fun. I think the hesitation comes from not wanting to be romantic with me right now, she wants to build our friendship first. We were planning on doing some home projects tonight together as our UA time. I thought this would allow us to be together, but not force a romantic situation.

She also keeps telling me she feels like she is going through this alone, to which I respond that I am there for her. But she doesn't feel like I'm her friend right now. I think I just need to keep being there for her and wait it out.

One thing I don't like about her attitude is that told me she is fighting feeling resentment for me. She says that in a way I need to earn her trust back because she trusted me to lead us and she doesn't like where I lead us to. I feel like I am taking a lot of the blame for this situation, and while I know I allowed the conditions that led to the affair, it seems counterintuitive that I should be the one taking the blame. I�m trying to not let that bother me because I don�t really think it matters as long as we move forward in correct manner.

I'm going to discuss the EPs and NC letter tonight with her and will definitely provide an update after that discussion.

Will she come and post here?

Can you afford the online program?

I mentioned posting here, but she is a little skeptical. I might be able to convince her.

No, we can't afford the online program or the sessions at the moment.

I was reading some of the Exposure 101 thread, like I said earlier, I wish I had exposed the OM to his facebook friends. I could still do this, but wouldn't this be considered the trickle effect?

I almost feel like I shouldn't expose him unless he makes any attempt to contact my wife, especially once she has sent the NC letter. Then I would have a very legitimate reason to tell all of his friends.

That's why moving is such a good idea. Having the OM 500+ miles away saves me from the feeling that I have to be so hyper-observant. There is always the general affair threat that everyone faces, whether they are aware of it of not. I am always on the lookout for new potential OMs, or for that matter, any women who might gain any access with me. You will always have to be vigilant, but there are things you can do to make rekindling of the affair with this particular OM essentially impossible.

She told me tonight that she feels empty and that she doesn't even believe in love anymore. Is this withdrawal or something more serious?