I understand to try to find people that have a similar philosophy on marriage.
That's why I listen one of Harleys books in my top 3 favorite books list , as a way of hopefully attracting someone of similar philosophy.

Exactamundo!

How will you know this is possible if the freeloader is expected to do nothing...only what comes natural?

It is my understanding one needs to work at EN meeting, POJA learning, and conflict resolution before you get married. I'd expect the person I am dating to do this with me, which means they won't be doing what comes natural. They will be doing something to build new habits.

I'd never compare buying a house or a car with a human who has been cheated on. I think it is dangerous to not recommend one demonstrate and expect their partner to demonstrate those characteristics before marriage.

All I am saying is I run from freeloaders in dating. If they cannot move to renter after a short time, then I'm done. They are too selfish and I certainly don't want to deal with their on fire Taker. YIKES!!!

Freeloaders in dating cannot demonstrate proper care and they certainly have IB, and Selfishness as part of their character.

I'd never date someone who maintains that level of Taker up until marriage. I'd NEVER recommend that to anyone I know who has been betrayed.

How do you recommend a freeloader then ... I am hearing blind trust. I'm not reading trust but verify here. We are human...not a car ... not a house ... humans with emotions! I'd like to trust and verify this human can meet my needs, negotiate properly, and have good conflict resolution before marriage because that protects me from a lifetime of a painful marriage and/or another bout with adultery.

How do you know a house is going to be a good buy? How do you know a car is going to be a good car? How do you know a job candidate is going to be a good one? How do you know anything is going to be good before you buy it? You test it out and make a decision based on the information at hand.

But a dating person is a freeloader by his nature. They are SUPPOSED to be a freeloader at that point. They ARE independent by nature, because they are not married. Of course they are not going to have an integrated lifestyle BEFORE they are married. That comes after. Just like I don't fix up a house BEFORE I buy it, I don't change myself to accommodate a boyfriend, unless and until I am married.

Once again, Dr Harley says all the time he was a freeloader when they were dating.

Oops! Sorry, Jedi! I have online dating tips for you, I will come back. And thank you

Well in the case of the poster who married Nature Girl, Harley encouraged him to practice POJA when they were boyfriend and girlfriend

Also, the analogy between a house and a person is DR HARLEY'S idea and it is a legitimate analogy. I encourage the use of that analogy because it so aptly makes the point.

Yep, that is one good way to test the candidate. Will this person use the POJA? How will this person handle conflict? This is another way one can test the candidate.

You recommend the freeloader and I'll recommend the buyer. I am in the dating world, and I am 100% certain nobody comes free of bad habits, and learning to meet needs and POJA takes one out of the "comes naturally" state.

I cannot recommend anyone date a freeloader unless it is fresh in the relationship. The guys that keep me interested in them are the ones who will meet my needs with proper care, work to resolve conflict, and learn the art of negotiation. As a betrayed spouse this is the only thing that remains a priority for me while dating.

I have zero interest in a man who demonstrates his Taker the entire relationship, and I certainly do not want a man willing to sacrifice to make the relationship work.

A man who dates me is one who understands win/win, and the goal of maintaining romantic love is using proper care to meet ENs. I have yet to find a single man (out of the 30+ I have dated in the past 18 months) to fit this billet exactly. Men in their late 30's and early 40's come with bad habits and baggage.

I caution you on recommending Jedi take the freeloader path throughout the relationship. I wouldn't date it and I wouldn't recommend a freeloader to my friends. With 85% of blended marriages ending in divorce I feel an extra layer of protection is needed. The ability of the person to demonstrate effortlessly buyer qualities not only takes an effort on their part to change, but also an effort from me to work with them. Bad habits are simply part of today's dating world. The goal is to build good marriage building habits while dating. I believe this makes them a buyer, which is something Dr. Harley told me to do during my last phone conversation with him.

Hence we both have buyer qualities that demonstrate the willingness to show proper care and EN meeting before we make the committment. Call me jaded, but as a betrayed spouse anything less puts me at risk for dealing with adultery again.

I heard Dr. Harley say the best preparation for marriage is POJA. If you can do that successfully, then you're on a good path.

Radio clip on engagement
Radio clip on engagement

So when someone moves from freeloader to renter to buyer (the natural progression of relationships) they will be good partners for marriage.

This is also why Dr. Harley recommends to date multiple partners during the dating period, to have the contrast effect.

No, I recommend someone who WILL BECOME a buyer in marriage. A dater, by definition, is a freeloader. But I accept and acknowledge that daters are freeloaders by definition. To believe otherwise is to believe that if a dating relationship becomes rocky, the wisest path would be to go to years of counseling [for the purpose of changing behavior] versus eliminating that candidate. The former would be a buyer strategy but would be very inappropriate when dating. What would be appropriate in that situation would be to break up.

So if Jedi is going to date, he will be dating freeloaders. He will have to determine who will be a BUYER in the future.

Keep in mind that Dr Harley is a self described FREELOADER when he was dating but is a 100% buyer since he has been married. Imagine what Joyce would be missing out on if she rejected him for it!

Now, I do agree with you that a candidate must show a willingness to become a buyer once married, but a dater is not a buyer by definition because he has not made a legal commitment.

Prisca stated it perfectly in this post. That is Dr Harleys position.

Here.
Radio Clip on Jedi_Knight's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3

Here it is.
Radio Clip
Segment #2

Here it is.
Radio Clip on Tough's Call On Dating
Segment #2
Segment #3

Homesweet, if you were going on dates with a guy and he wasn't a match for you, would you be a buyer and go to counseling or say "this isn't the relationship for me?"

I know when I was dating, I wanted a stable relationship that would lead to marriage. A buyer would do stuff like integrate checking accounts and in dating, I'm not going to do that. And if the person had that need for FS and wanted to be a stay at home spouse, I would indicate whether I was okay with that or not but I wouldn't immediately tell her she could quit her job... That would be saved for marriage. And, not to mention, the first part of dating is getting to know each other and introducing each other to the ENs and getting on board with POJA. I would run from a woman that immediately started into POJA because without understanding the concept it can seem controlling.

Think about this... Most guys have a high need for SF. A buyer would be interested in meeting this need. Are you going to start being intimate with the guy you're dating very quickly or are you saving that for the marriage or the engagement time?

My understanding is dating is freeloader, being engaged is renting, and marriage is buying.

A buyer demonstrates the ability to show care, meet needs, and POJA ... when that happens in the relationship depends on the couple. As Dr. Harley states to me in my phone calls with him one should become a renter/buyer in dating.

How one goes about it is their business. All I'm trying to tell Jedi is remaining a freeloader the entire time up until marriage is likely not optimal considering that most folks come with bad habits and baggage. It best suites the dater to hone in on good marriage building habits such as proper care, POJA, and need meeting.

When and how one does it isn't my business. I will not continue to date a freeloader ... they scare me and give me zero reassurance that they have the fundamentals of a good marriage.

By the feedback I was provided on a couple occasions by the good Doc ... it is very wise for me a single mother to set my bar high ... I.e. buyer high.

If others feel they get a great catch by dating a freeloader then more power to them ... I will not date them and I tell all my single friends to run from them. This is why I am still dating because I feel the more opportunity to see these freeloaders for their lack of care, selfishness, and IB the better I am at knowing what I want.

Women in dating get to drive this ... this isn't a man driven area. I am asked out weekly, and I have several men I may consider as renters. I find men really do want a great wife. I am able to meet their needs except for sex. We don't need sex for romantic love ... so I don't worry about SF. In my opinion after dating 30+ guys and having a handful of guy friends that being a freeloader isn't wise. Usually most guys I date match me on my values. So we can transition to renter fairly quickly, but their lovebusters drain quickly. If they only do what comes natural they won't address the lovebusters. Why give up so quickly if they can demonstrate a willingness to care for me be building a better habit? If we meet needs well isn't getting rid of the lovebusters ideal? Some do and some don't ... the ones that don't are no longer dateable to me. The ones that show a willingness keep my attention. I can't expect to date anyone perfect ... but what I can expect is their willingness to POJA with me. If I had a habit that was bad and the person I was dating asked me to build a better habit I'd do it. It's all about the willingness to show proper care ... seriously how's that not your ideal candidate?

So if one must only show a willingness "once married" how does that protect a betrayed spouse from not eternally being bonded with someone who may or may not be a buyer?

Why should any betrayed spouse marry someone who hasn't already demonstrated their "ability" to be a buyer? If your buying a mansion that needs no fixing you have already verified it by doing a whole host of inspections beforehand. If you decide to buy a decrepit house how are you ever going to know it can be fixed up? Fixing takes time and energy ... I don't want that. Plus it may tell me it wants to fix itself but after marriage it gets lazy and decides its happy being decrepit.

I want my mansion ... the place I inspected ... the place that demonstrated to me it was a good buy. The place that invested time and energy beforehand to make itself the best. I'm not going to take the word it's a good house unless I can see it with my own eyes... I expect that house to demonstrate to me it's a good house.

Demonstrating the ability to be a buyer is different than being a buyer.

Read my post. My wife is a stay at home wife. I wouldn't have supported her when we were dating. I was willing to in marriage. So I was willing to be a buyer. But I was not a buyer during dating.

And if a buyer is one that is willing to meet the ENs of the other and the other has a high need for SF, but you are not willing to meet this need, then are you fully buying or are you renting?

"So if one must only show a willingness "once married" how does that protect a betrayed spouse from not eternally being bonded with someone who may or may not be a buyer?"

No, one shows a willingness before married, to actually BE a buyer after married. They are not a buyer, though, until they have bought, ie: married.