writer, you have a husband and kids! They are your family.

My own family was very small in number to begin with, then diminished by divorce and death, and now I only have my H and kids - but that is plenty. We look after each other; what else do you need? Having that much of a family is a real privilege, to my mind. (Please tell me, though, that you haven't allowed the youngest boy to continue living with you.)

I think it is normal to be mourning your mother, and it's perhaps that sadness that makes you feel alone.

Do you have plans for the near future? Do you plan to move out of that apartment, at least, and to a new area ASAP? I hope that your financial plight is eased for now, with your mother's money.

Writer, IMO, it needs to be on your husband to make this UA time happen. It shouldn't be something you are trying to resolve alone.

Your husband doesn't see it as a real priority or he would help you find someone to take care of the children.

I would insist that he needs to get involved here to help find a solution to this problem. He has a depressed wife on his hands. The solution is for him to take better care of her.

I think the reason I'm struggling so much is that I really don't have these things. Three of my five kids aren't here. DD22 and DS21 live in Colorado, so I maybe talk to them on the phone once a week. DS19 is in Arizona right now and may be staying if he finds a job. DS24 lives an hour away, but just started a new job, so has very little time.

That leaves DD5 and Husband. I love DD5, but she's 5, spending most of my time in the company of a 5-year-old just isn't terribly fulfilling. 5-year-olds can only provide a certain type of companionship, and that alone just isn't enough.

My relationship with my H just isn't great. We're spending maybe 4 hours of UA time together a week. We don't talk much. Pretty much none of my needs are getting met. I don't feel connected to him at all. We don't spend nearly enough time together for that connection to develop. And when I try to talk to him about it, he either gets upset or morose, apologizes for not being able to meet my needs, and does nothing about it.

So I sit here feeling lonely, bored, miserable, and unfulfilled. I'm not sleeping well. I feel very depressed and hopeless. I'm struggling a lot, and other than posting here, I don't even have anyone to talk to about it.

While all of this might be true, it isn't within my sphere of control. I know I can only control myself, so I'm trying to figure out things I can do to make things better. Because I need to find a way to start feeling better. I need to find happiness and a sense of purpose and fulfillment. What I'm struggling with is that everything I come up with pretty much falls into the category of independent behavior, since I would pretty much be doing it on my own. I've seen where independent behavior can lead, and it isn't pretty, so I just sit here and do nothing and wait and hope things change. Which they never do.

Sorry if this is rambling. It's 6:30 in the morning here and I've been up for two hours. I just can't seem to sleep much these days.

I know that, writer. That is why Dr. Harley's advice for women in your situation is to draw a firm line with their husbands. Let him know that this is what it will take to keep you in the marriage. If he doesn't, prepare for a separation, because this will never work unless your husband starts to show this level of involvement.

Dr. Harley absolutely recommends that women NOT linger on for years trying to get their husbands on board. It results in severe depression, mental and emotional issues, health issues. It's terrible! The Marriage Builders advice for a woman in your situation, where a husband does not step up to the plate, is to protect yourself from him.

Over and over on the radio show and here on the forum I see women lingering on for years without the wholehearted participation of their husbands. It always leads to disaster. I have never seen it lead to success. Many times I've seen the woman involved become suicidal.


It is called Plan B, writer. And it is vitally important that you find a way to start feeling better soon.


writer, this kind of depression and sleep deprivation is serious.

As far as the letters between your mom and dad...I say seal them in an envelope and file them away. Decide later if you want to keep them. Just history and may come in handy one day when having to lecture one of your children about a wayward moment in their lives and they claim you just don't understand.

I guess I know this, but I just keep hoping there might be a way to save my marriage, that there might still be a chance that my husband will get onboard with MB. But every argument, every love-buster, every day that goes by with needs not being met, time not being spent together, diminishes that hope.

Writer, Plan B is that chance. It's the only chance your marriage has. Plan B is a husband's last chance to rise to the occasion - and some do, though many don't. But if he won't rise to that occasion to keep his marriage, then there is nothing his wife could have ever done to make it good.

And as you've observed, it gets harder and harder the longer you go. A woman who has not been protected by the separation and darkness of Plan B is NOT attractive to her husband at all. MelodyLane posted a very good quote from Dr. Harley about this today, on mommyof8's thread over in Surviving an Affair.

writer, you can see for yourself how bad things are and that they are only going to get worse. Use Plan B to protect what you have left. You can't make your husband decide to have a good marriage, but if he does decide he wants to have one, Plan B allows him to have a sane wife when he finally makes that decision.

Can you read through the how to Plan B correctly thread and start getting things ready?

The thing is, I've mostly seen Plan B recommended when there is an affair. I know it is invaluable in those kinds of cases. And I've seen it recommended sometimes in the case of an abusive or alcoholic spouse.

But my husband isn't having an affair and he isn't abusive. He just isn't really onboard with MB, doesn't spend enough UA time with me, and doesn't meet some of my EN's. I'm not sure if Plan B would work for that kind of situation.

Plan B is recommended when there is neglect. Plan B would be the best thing in your situation because the longer this goes on, the more depressed you will get and the less likely you will resolve the problem. This article is very close to your situation and Plan B is exactly what Dr Harley recommended: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

Yes, it absolutely would, writer, and it is absolutely what Dr. Harley recommends for your situation!

No kidding, writer - I literally listen to Dr. Harley 1-3 hours a day. The theme is very clear: when a husband will not join his wife in building a good marriage, over time it is absolutely devastating to her, and she needs to use Plan B to protect herself, and give him one last chance. I have heard Dr. Harley recommend this over and over again.

I would be happy to write Dr. Harley and ask if he has time to come here to post this to you and confirm it to you, but why should we have to do that - the whole point of this forum is so that we can learn from his advice given in many situations, and pass that advice on.

In this case, it's written all through the article When to Call it Quits. The whole point of that article is that women whose husbands are abusive or even neglectful should go to Plan B to protect themselves. It's not just for affairs. That article makes it very clear.

Don't you see what years of his neglect and abuse are doing to you, writer? (And it's not just neglect - you were just explaining above about his love busters. So let's call it what it is: abuse AND neglect.)

Marriage Builders is not a plan that allows women to save their marriages when the husbands aren't on board. There is no such plan. It does not work. The only thing you can do, and the thing Dr. Harley would advise you to do if you were paying him for private counseling sessions, is to protect yourself and set up a situation where you are going to build a life that does not destroy and depress you, one which your husband has an option to join if he chooses.

This is the Marriage Builders advice for your situation. It's the right step to take. Many, many people have taken that step. Some of them have been joined by their husbands and had a good marriage - but all of them have recovered, whether their husbands joined them or not.

The first bit of time being separated from him will be very difficult, but after a couple of weeks you will feel so much better. Being in a bad marriage is draining - seriously, dangerously draining for a wife.

Haven't you watched here and seen how the other women in MB101 who do what you have done (stick with a husband in a bad marriage for years) end up SUICIDAL, writer? You are headed for a nervous breakdown.

All we can do is help encourage to realize that life sucks now and will continue to suck and get WORSE (far worse) as long as you go this route. This has been years of not following Marriage Builders at all, and that's why Marriage Builders hasn't been of any benefit to you.

Life like this is hell on earth and is only going to get worse. Here is the way out.

Writer, check this out:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2773796#Post2773796

This is from Dr. Harley about Plan B. He was talking about an affair situation, but he has made it clear in print and on the radio that it absolutely applies to a situation like yours, too, where the husband is abusive and neglectful leading to the wife being depressed like you are:

Please read this carefully, writer. It explains why NOT getting into Plan B is just going to make it less and less likely that your marriage will ever be saved.


You are like the woman Dr. Harley was talking to there, writer. You've tried this tactic already and IT DOES NOT WORK. It won't work no matter how long you give it. It just means that in another couple years we will be hearing scarier and scarier things from you.

Read this one, too:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2773787#Post2773787


That is where you are headed, writer. It will be horrible and it will not save your marriage and it will not get your husband to do anything to fix your marriage. But a separation might!

Be sure and click the link and read the rest. MelodyLane is the best. She is like Dr. Harley himself - those years of posting here haven't been airing her own personal opinions. She is truly a student of all aspects of Dr. Harley's program, for all marital situations. The Marriage Builders advice in your situation is clear, writer.

Absolutely. There is no question about what Dr. Harley says about Plan B for women. It is not just for affairs.

Writer,

Perhaps you've mentioned this, but are you taking antidepressants? You've been through so much these last months.

Why dont you email Dr Harley for advice?

writer1,

Neglect isn't the passive, one can almost live with it kind of thing. I think that's why Dr. Harley suggests separation for neglect as well as for abuse and infidelity. The reality is that your husband is not giving you care or being there for you. The radio show on December 30th was an eye-opener for me when Dr. Harley explained in depth what affection is. He said it was the behavior and conversation that gives the message that you are there for your spouse, will protect them, care for them, be their strength and support, and help them with their problems. Are you getting that from your husband?

The daily lack of affection isn't a stagnant thing, it weakens you a little more each day, especially if you are the one trying to make the relationship work all on your own. That's why a separation is the answer to neglect. It keeps you from being used up for nothing.

Talk to us, writer - where'd you go?

Writer,

Is it all right with you if I T/J and ask if Brain Hurts can post this particular show?

I'm here. Just the typical weekend business. But I am reading and mulling things over.

My husband and I did have a nice date night last night. He arranged the sitter and we went out to dinner, walked around the mall a little, stopped by the bookstore, had some nice conversation on the drive there and back.

He has said that he is interested in learning more about MB. He has expressed a willingness and desire to meet my needs and try to figure out how we can get more UA time.

And honestly, this isn't all his fault. I know I don't do a very good job of meeting his EN's either. I've felt very withdrawn from this relationship for quite some time, so meeting some of the intimate EN's like affection and SF isn't easy. I want to change that, but I'm not sure where to start.

But I don't think I'm ready for anything like Plan B yet. To me, it just feels like giving up, and I'm not ready to give up yet. Plus, I have DD5 to consider. My husband has been a wonderful father to her, even though she isn't biologically his daughter, and I know the impact it would have on her not to be able to see him everyday. I know what is best for her is for my husband and I to rebuild an intimate, passionate, loving marriage, and that's what I want. He says that's what he wants too. We haven't always agreed on how to do that, true, but I still have hope that we can.