I had an idea. My wife and I have a good marriage. I am looking to do more. I heard about never saying no to the DW. Know what her needs are, thanks to HNHN, don't do the love busters. Do them: When you think she needs them or when she says she does. No excuses. If it's something you can't do right away (have to leave for work), then make a point of scheduling a rain check. All of this without expecting reciprocation.

The problems I can really see is 1) if I'm not feeling 100% she'll be disappointed, 2) she'll think I'm up to something, 3) and realistically, I may get burned out. Even though no reciprocation is expected, I'll still be needing my needs met. It'll also be hard nto to expect her to rise to the occastion.

Has anyone tried this? Thoughts?

Well, HoM, what you have described is 1) what Dr. Harley is talking about in this article;

How to Make Your Wife Happy

and, 2) Why the Policy of Joint Agreement, or PoJA is so important.

Read up on both of those. You find out that "never saying no to the DW" is definitely not part of the answer, while avoiding Love Busters IS part of the solution.


For instance; if you follow the PoJA, your points; 1, 2, and 3 - will be nullified!

That all makes sense. What I'm understanding, in a real brief summary, is she needs to be aware of how I will be responding to her.

By saying our marriage is a "good marriage," I'm saying: We already have eliminated the majority of love busters (especially on my part), and are making progress towards the others. We're also very aware of meeting each others' needs.

When I started trying this a few months back, I noticed other things start to improve between us. And, no, I hadn't told her what I was doing.

We've got 2 major hurdles to work past. (Although one of them I've respectfully withdrawn from, but I figure there will be a time in the future when we'll revisit it. We just needed to time to work on other things before coming back to it.) I think once we get to a point of understanding with these two this effort of mine will improve things for us both.

HoM, HHH has pointed you to the right article to explain Dr. Harley's take on always doing what your wife wants. Capitulation is not sustainable long term.

If you'll read through the Basic Concepts section on this website, check out the section on the Giver and the Taker. What you'll find is that these are two instincts that all people possess that compete. Neither one of them is bad, but both of these instincts need to be controlled with your rationality. Either one of them can destroy your marriage (including your Giver).

Have you read about the Policy of Undivided Attention? If the Love Busters have been eliminated, rigorously following the POUA is probably the single best thing you can do to take your marriage to the next level.

Understand also, I'm not talking about "capitulating" - just rolling over to whatever. I'm talking about putting her before me, dying to myself.

The point is for both of you to be alive, though. Marriage shouldn't require the death of one spouse. This is not human sacrifice, here.

Capitulating is Dr. Harley's term for just doing what your spouse wants even when you are not enthusiastic.

In that case, I'd be interested in hearing how Dr. Harley explains Eph. 5:21,25 in light of this. Happily taking care of the woman I love doesn't sound like capitulating or giving because it won't make me unhappy. It makes me happy.

I'm going to re-ask my OP to make it more generic for others to answer:

Has anyone who has a fairly healthy marriage, ever considered meeting her wants/needs unconditionally and without refusal? In other words, when you think she needs/wants something, you deliver. No excuses. All of this without expecting reciprocation.
This would be a deliberate act of love, not out of resentment or causing unhappiness, but happily doing so. Has anyone tried this?

I am interested in hearing personal points of view, more so than a link to what Dr Harley says.

Hoodlum, this isn't a personal opinion venue. We are here to discuss Dr Harley's program. He is the expert, not us. Sacrifice and unconditional love don't make marriages happy. They breed neglect, abuse and incompatibility. And yes, many of us have tried sacrifice. It is a renters approach that leads to bad marriages.

Start here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_ul.html

And then read this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_wife.html

Do not make the mistake of believing the numerous other texts in the Bible about responding to negative behaviors (i.e. anger, foolishness, etc.) all have an "*except in a marriage" caveat.

In that case, you are really in the wrong place. This is not just a general opinion discussion board.

We'll happily let you know why Dr. Harley's decades of experience have led him to believe that what you are describing is a bad idea. If you want to go ahead and do it, fine, but this is not a place for us to reinforce and support you just doing what you think is a good idea.

Most of us here destroyed our own marriages by our own best thinking before we came here. And some of us "backed it up" with Scripture!

Read Luke 14:12-14 closely to find out why Jesus does not want you to sacrifice in a relationship where the other person is able to repay you:

http://biblehub.com/luke/14-12.htm
http://biblehub.com/luke/14-13.htm
http://biblehub.com/luke/14-14.htm

My wife is perfectly capable of repaying me in marriage, and so I do not sacrifice for her. If she became disabled and unable to recompense me, that would be a different story. In the meantime, we make our sacrifices to God jointly by giving to those who cannot repay us.

I had a response and decided to just forget about it. Looking at the marital situations (e.g. "Most of us here destroyed our own marriages") of most of the people on this board, perhaps I'm asking the wrong audience. Guess I need to find a board where there are great marriages who kept it great without the fractures.

Sunnytimes 1) I never believed any of the texts are "except in marriage." 2) Since most of that chapter is about marriage. If it's not right, nobody else is.

Thanks everyone for the input. Good luck to each of you.

(15 years of marriage. Through Dynamic Marriage class. Been through His Needs/Her Needs 3x.)

Oh you are asking the right audience alright. What matters is that we have created great marriages using these principles. Dr Harley has had a great marriage for 50 years. The point is that he knows how to create and maintain a happy, romantic marriage forever and your average "audience" has no earthly idea. Only 20% of marriages are happy and romantic so if you think you can get answers from the general population, then you have an unrealistic view of our culture.

Hoodlum: "Sunnytimes 1) I never believed any of the texts are "except in marriage."

Good for you. It took me 25 years plus the insight of Melody Lane and others to learn that.

All of my understanding about the Ephesians chapter you referenced has been been totally re-written with a 25 year marriage which was impossible (husband prone to anger; I tried to just be quiet and not exacerbate/take it).

During a powerful application of II Cor 10:8(a) "8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction,...." I realized that God did not intend for us to submit to a destructive leadership, even if it was under a husband.

One more question for you:

You said: "I had a response and decided to just forget about it. Looking at the marital situations (e.g. "Most of us here destroyed our own marriages") of most of the people on this board, perhaps I'm asking the wrong audience."

Does your wife believe your marriage is in the same state that you think it is in?

When my husband and I were reading the first chapter of LoveBusters together about a couple coming to Dr. Harley for counseling where the wife was "about ready for a divorce", my husband said "that sounds pretty bad; we are nowhere near that" and I said "that's exactly where I feel we are". He was astonished and had no idea I had any thoughts to that regard.

Well the point here is that Dr. Harley studied those marriages. That's how he put his program together. As it turns out, great marriages do not do what you are describing.

Most of us who are posting to you used this information to recover our marriages. I live in a fantastic marriage today!

**EDIT**