Ernie,

Have you read the book Love Busters by Dr Harley?

Sure they are, but spouses separating seems like death sentence to the family structure. I believe in cases of extreme abuse it is warranted.

(BTW: I have my AO's under control, please see: #2767789 - 11/23/13 11:59 PM -
Here's an analogy to explain how I feel about it:
If you break the speed limit, you get a ticket and usually pay a fine. Most people don't really try to break the speed limit, they just do sometimes because they aren't paying close enough attention. The fine hurts to get, but it isn't a death sentence.

There are no states giving the death sentence to speeders, so I get really confused when people accuse me of murder on here, when I just wasn't watching the speedometer as closely as I should have, that's all.

I understand I have had to pay an occasional fine (LB withdrawls) because I was speeding (DJ's -still learning those) but I really don't believe I deserve a death penalty.

In cases of separation, Dr Harley doesnt recommend separation as a means of punishment like a traffic cop giving a ticket.
He recommends it as a means of protecting the other spouse from the emotional harm that is being caused.

Would you like your wife to be madly in love with you?

Thanks - but Dude, I am working hard on being a better husband in this marriage, it's just really hard to get over so many bad habits learned over the years. I can try to get perfect overnight, but it isn't easy. I feel like I got a really good hold on my AO's really quickly once I realized just how much damage I was doing, and it still takes energy and effort to make that be a success as well...

Changing bad habits really drains a lot out of a person. The only thing I ask is for patience as I am improving, and I get that from Elaina (bless her heart) ... and I hope it isn't too much to ask for a little patience from y'all as well.

I am totally cool with that... I want her to feel like she is getting some good support from others when she needs it.


I do too, my man.

I hurt like hell right now, as well... and I don't know if anyone can tell I am.

I really feel like no ones cares if I am hurting like hell, as well.

Abuse is the death sentence here. Separation would be to protect your wife, not punish you.

You need to start taking your abuse more seriously.
According to your wife's recent post, you are still punishing her.

I get this. I don't want to make her feel bad. I was just really upset because I felt that situation wasn't being accurately portrayed, that's all. Shoot, if I didn't know her at all and was going only by what "Elaina" has posted on here, I would suggest she leave as well! It's just that... well, the info she posts on here sure seems very, very different to me than what is really going on, that's all. I guess that is why I can get so confused and wondering why she says the things that she does sometimes, because it seems like it doesn't coincide with what is happening in our marriage and home. I don't want to call her an outright liar, but it just reminds me of the old saying: "There's three sides to every story- your side, my side, and the truth".

OK, I have my flame suit on for saying that, but I think you get what I am saying. I will FREELY ADMIT that I have a long way to go on learning about what is a DJ and what is not a DJ.... and I think that now that my anger is under control, I need to study some more on getting a hold of what DJ's I am doing and figure out how to stop doing them.

I sure would!! That is why I am working on trying to be a better husband, so she would be madly in love with me, as I am in love with her!! <3 <3 <3

We have read a lot from the Love Busters book, but I don't think we have finished reading together yet. She has read the whole thing, but I don't know when I would be able to find the time to read it other than when we have UA time. Same with the DR. H radio broadcasts, where do I find the time?

You can ask her if she really truly wants to separate. She tells me she doesn't, and I believe her.


Still learnin', ma'am. :tips hat:

You are still downplaying your abuse. Your marriage will not get better until you start taking what she says seriously -- MORE seriously than we on this board take her.

As far when is there time to read Lovebusters or listen to the show -- MAKE THE TIME.

Do you have a smartphone? You can ;listen to the show during your commute using the free MB app.

She doesn't need to read it together with you. You need to study it as if your M depends on it, though.

I don't think you really do.

People are really trying to help you but you seem to want to talk more than you want to listen. Your M is in real trouble here and you need to start listening. You are VERY LUCKY that markos and prisca are helping you.

I was very disappointed with this post, Ernie.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of: It was wrong of me to browbeat my W into POJA'ing her posts with me. I have encouraged her to post again and told her I will not punish her for her posts.

Instead you tell us you're not some kind of monster. That's basically gaslighting. I hope you don't talk to your W like that.

That is an amazingly cavalier and nonchalant attitude about the PAIN and suffering that you are causing your wife. Every word uttered to defend yourself is going to be offensive to her.

"I'm just learning" - doesn't help the hurt. It makes it worse.

(Plus, part of the problem is that learning is TOO LOW of a priority for you. Everything else is taking precedence, when this should be number one, and it would be, if you took it seriously.)

If you care that you've hurt her, you'll stop defending yourself and start following the very practical suggestions that have been offered to help you learn how to not hurt her any more.

Any case like this one - where the husband doesn't take the problem of abuse seriously and makes excuses about why he isn't going to be able to follow the plan to correct the problem - is a case of extreme abuse.

Dr. Harley's advice to women is to write a letter to their husbands expressing their complaint about abuse and/or neglect and then if he dismisses the problem or explains why it has to be that way and she should be more tolerant, etc., his advice is to separate to protect herself until he takes the problem seriously. In at least one case, Dr. Harley knew a woman who wrote her husband such a letter and he simply tore it up!

(You'd be familiar with more of those cases if you were listening to the radio show.)

I'm actually not reading her posts fully but am reading yours in detail - I don't need to take her word to see the abuse: you describe yourself doing and saying abusive things very frequently. The biggest problem right now is that you don't know how to even recognize disrespect on your part. So you think you are doing great, but you are actually saying a lot of things that are disrespectful. And then when we try to encourage you to educate yourself about this so you can stop this problem, you let us know that you don't have time.

What that means is, there is no hope for Elaina that the disrespectful judgments are going to stop any time soon. You don't know what the problem is and aren't going to take the steps that are necessary to become educated about it. That doesn't leave her with much hope, and under the circumstances, Dr. Harley would advise her to start planning for a separation to protect herself.

I'd like to hear from Elaina again very soon on this board - it is very serious that you tried to cut her off from this source of support against your abuse. Seeking support for an abusive situation (demands, disrespect, or anger) is not subject to the Policy of Joint Agreement. I hope you will encourage her to post freely - let her know that if she feels you are punishing her for what she writes here, you encourage her to report this to the moderators and get you banned or whatever it takes so that she can receive this support without having to be afraid of you.

Doing that would go a long way toward helping your situation, Ernie.


Yes, you do! Like Prisca said - you need to make the time!

Thanks; I know this is true. I'll have to figure out a way to find the time somehow.



I don't believe I realized that. I am not "just learning" though - I am not making excuses, I am making real measurable progress. It gives me hope to jeep moving forward.

By the way, we had a separation in 2012. Prisca insisted that I could no longer live with her if I continued to be abusive.

We are back together, and very happy. And I know that she will never put up with that again. Knowing this helps motivate me to avoid demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts!

That isn't me, though (the tearing up letter type) - my wife and I do talk about the things I need to be taking more seriously.


She's online reading this right now, so Baby - go ahead and post what you need to post, I'll keep my big nose out of it!

MUAH!