W and I went to the movies tonite(saw the Bone Collector, it was good!) w was quiet and her body language said she wasn't interested.<P>Afterwards we stopped for a bite to eat and a couple drinks. We finally got around to talking about us.<BR>She basically laid it on the line, that she is enjoying living on her own, that it is allowing her to find herself. She said she hasn't been happy for 6-7 yrs through no fault of my own. It just we don't have any chemistry and can't click. She admitted that while she always blamed me for lack of communication, she can not talk to me.<P>She said that she is learning to like herself as an independent woman. That the wife and mother part of her is very weak and trying to fill those needs for me also was making her unhappy. <P>She is not blaming me for who I am but she cannot be happy with me and doesn't want to make me unhappy. She knows that neither one of us can change our basic personality and that to try never would succeed.<P>So I guess this means the end. SHe said she doesn't want to do anything about a divorce until after the holidays(now I'm really looking forward to the holidays).<P>I guess the disturbing part is that why did she wait 16 yrs to find that out. She is even changing her outlook on God. She has been quoting CS Lewis and said God is just there to give us strength, that he doesn't try to change our free will.<P>All I know is I'm hurting tonite.

RWD -- I'm sorry man. I will say an extra prayer for you tonight.<P>God Bless

rwd, <P>sad to hear you are down. Don't get offended if I say I would rather be in your situation than still having wife in the affair still. I have been following your situation with lots of prayers for you and lots of best wishes.<P>Like your other thread, I think you have to make sure not to expect too much too soon. If you believe the Harley principles, it is imperative the betrayer have no contact with OP after affair ends. She will not be able to go thru a real withdrawal until she fully separates out of that. If I had to guess, what she is saying now is still based on emotions left from the affair, being away from home (and responsibilities that go with that), and still to early for her to fall back into romantic love with you again.<P>On the part about your wife finding her indepence and what she wants in life. I have a feeling my wife is trying to do that also (she is still in affair) and may continue even after affair crashes. She is on her own, only has child half time, and is free from responsibilities in our house (she is in an apt). I spoke with her best friend, and we discussed that my wife has issues in her emotional life she needs to deal with and resolve on her own. The resolution may take her out of this marriage, but I would want her to figure those issues out before we decided to work on us again anyway.<P>BTW, do you think your wife had changed in your marriage since say 5 yrs ago or recently? Did you two drift apart and not change together? I have been trying to figure that out for myself (the last 6-12 mths of marriage).

RWD boy is she making life hard for you!<P>If she's lying and OM is the problem then it makes sense, but it sucks. OTH if she's teling you the truth it sucks too! I don't know what to tell you other than I hear you and I wish I could help.

So she is saying that it took her 16 years to figure out that your basic personalities were incompatible? After all, if your basic personalities can't change, then they are the same as they were the day you met.<P>My H said almost exactly those same words to me when he was still pretending there wasn't someone else. Even after I pointed out many ways in which are compatible, he said that he just didn't feel compatible.<P>It is all a bunch of cr**. I suspect your wife is still very much in withdrawal.

I'm Sorry to hear you're down brother. I know how you feel. BUT...... I think she's LYING to you, and most of all to herself. I also agree that OM has SOMETHING to do with this. In other words, she's trying to recreate the "feelings" OM gave her. THE FAKE FANTASY "Days of Our Lives" Feelings.<P> She's not being fair to YOU, your Marriage and most of all to herself!!<BR> These feelings aren't reality, they are "tricks" of the Devil. <P> She will see that someday when she "Grows UP"<BR> You JUST DON'T stay with someone for as long as you two without LOVE.<P> This BUL****T fantasy has REDEFINED her concept of love. At least what she NOW THINKS is the definition of love.<P> Love, long lasting mature love JUST DOESN'T give you heart palpation's!!! It gives you COMFORT and PEACE. <BR> If she looks for this, she will go from relationship to relationship to relationship and when the "HIGH" wears off, she will be depressed and leave.<BR> I'm not saying this is what she'll do, I HOPE she's smart enough to "Grow UP" faster. <BR> It may only take a couple of dates to wake her up. <BR> Try distancing yourself from her for a couple of days and see what happens. No LBs just end the conversations kindly but abruptly and don't call her. This may make her think she's "Stepped over the line" with that last load of CRAP she just fed you. GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

RWD,<BR> One other thing to support the BU*****T theory, She said "that she is learning to like herself as an independent woman"<P> DUH....... SHE IS NOT AN INDEPENDENT WOMAN!!!! She is a MARRIED WOMAN with CHILDREN. Fantasy, fantasy "Days of Our Lives, no, Mary Tyler Moore.. has she thrown her hat in the air in Times Square yet <BR> Reality WILL hit her, and HARD someday. You may have to help her pick up the pieces. FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

RWD,<BR> Sorry things aren't going well.What is this"I need to find myself"stuff,anyway?I mean,I thought I was somebody else,but that might of been yesterday? My W said the same thing.Also,we're not compatible after 22 years.PLEASE HELP makes a good point of the affair redefining the concept of love.You would think after this many years,our W's would settle for a secure,and comfortable marriage,not so much the"passionate lovers,wrestling as one"type of relationship.Maybe some people will never find true happiness.May you have the strength to carry on,no matter what happens.Take care. --Murph

I have to agree with most...<P>This "I need to find myself" is the same cr@& my wife gave me when she moved out. One week later... and she is having the OM (move in with her to) find herself.<P>This is a tough time for you... <BR>I'll be praying very hard for you... <P>Hang in there... if the pain gets to much... if it becomes too much of drain on you...a Plan B is what <B>you</B> might need!<P>I see my wife going down the exact same road... I'm anticipating going to Plan B after the holidays... when the pain should hit us both... (I'm hoping it will be her wake up call)...<P>Jim

RWD,<P>I agree with the others. This has OM written all over it. Either she is still involved or is still going through withdrawal.<P>One point I would like to make it this: Is it possible that she needs this time to do some REAL internal soul-searching? Maybe she just hasn't figured out what is REALLY important to her and her life. I don't know, but my gut is telling me that you should listen to all she is saying, but maybe understand that she is still SOOOO confused and you shouldn't necessarily BELIEVE everything she is saying right now. Even the book After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring says to do this during this confusing time.<P>My heart is hurting for you...<P>Roll Me Away

I am SOO sorry you're hurting. I agree with the others, though. This seems a LOT like withdrawal OR OM is still around.<P>Don't really know what else to say. "Find herself" Gimme a break!<P>Lori

RWD,<BR>Sorry for your pain. I know what it is like. Last weekend my W told me she loved me and was still in love with me, Then this weekend she told me she just said that to convince herself she was to help her feel that spark that never came. Now she says she hasn't felt love for me in a long time.<P>Enough to drive you nuts. Hang tough, Don't give up the fight just yet. Could be she is waffling, Having a good time out with you so it causes her to put up her defenses. Also I agree with the others, No one likes to be alone, the OM may still be around. Hang tough and take care<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Thanks all for your replies and support. <BR>She stopped in today to take the kids shopping and fix dinner. This is about 4 times in thr past week she has been shopping.<BR>She really doesn't have anything else to do!<P>She says she has friends that will look after her but complianed that 2 of her"friends" and their husbands wnet out to winery one nite and hadn't asked us.<P>I guess maybe I should start pointing out reality to her. That married couples won't be asking us out as they are unsure of our situation and they are probably afraid to catch our divorce bug, and secondly what woman in their right mind would want to bring along a woman who had an affair and is alone now, out with her and her husband. So unless these women are going out all the time, the chance for an invite are very slim.<BR>She doesn't have any single friends to my knowledge although she seems to have a second life at work.<P>Thats why I am thinking of going to Plan B. If she wants to be alone, then I guess I'll let her. Not many working people I know can date thru the week so thats another reality she will need to understand especially when she works afternoon shift and everyother weekend.<P>I think she is at least talking to om again, not sure how much, but it seems to be more than casual hello. She told me last nite that I was wrong about a criticism I had of him. She previously said that he could take care of all cars, and I said he couldn't since you need to have a computer analyzer. LAst nite she told me he does. She also told me that his wife is very strange. SO thats again leds me to think they are taking intimately.<P>izzy,<BR>My w has always been unhappy and unsure and hard on herself when something goes wrong. <BR>I can't say she has changed except when the affair occured and now.<P>Deep down, I question if she has ever truly loved me. We had kind of a whirl wind romance from 200 miles apart and got married within 2 yrs. We had our first child 4 yrs later and thats when the problems seemed to start as we couldn't so a lot of fun type things. 3 yrs later we had our second child and that really slowed things down for us and I pretty much settled into fatherhood and marriage.<P>She seemed to be concerned with "things" and started working more hours. I then got transferred to Oh and its been down hill from there. I do remember making a concious decision to have a life. Ir seemed everytime we got invited somewhere or there was something fun to do she was working, so I would sit home with the kids.<P>Now she is kinda blaming me for putting the children first and becoming boring.<BR>She says she needs more stimulation in life and it is not my fault that I can't provide it and it isn't right for me to have to change.<P>She said she is just weird maybe and that if that is true she will have to be happy living alone.<P>Somehow none of this makes me any better.

The 4 of us had a nice dinner, even the kids liked what she made!<P>I asked her afer Sat nights conversation, if she still wanted to go to joint counseling. Her reply was like nothing had happened. She said we could quit if I wanted to. I tried to talk to her about Sat bubt she didn't want to get into any heavy conversations.<P>When she left she left so fast that I had toi follow outside, but when she saw me coming she just got in the car and rolled the window down a little. Whats up with that?<P>I did take her car for gas , and snooped a little to see if there were any notes from om, there weren't. I did find a bunch of old parking receipts form various places that they went(they went more places in 3 months than we went in the last 3 yrs!) and also found a book about financial problems. I asked her about it but she wouldn't give me an answer. The book was from a library about 50 mile away! I guess they had some place they went to on aregular basis up that way as I noticed her mileage was good bit higher than normal and she also mentioned that she was worried about the mileage as it is a leased car. I guess om didn't use his car!<P>I'm still thinking about confronting her about om although on one the unpaid counselors I use advised me against it.

RWD -- Man, I'm really sorry you're going thru all this with the mixed messages and all. I'm curious, why does the one counselor feel you shouldn't confront?

I feel for you, it sure sounds like a classic case of mid-life. I know that doesn't help much but maybe it will help you not to take whats happened personal. <BR>I think you're a stronger man than I am, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably let her go. It takes courage for you to go to plan B, and I'm happy you can keep the faith. I don't mean to start preachin but the Bible does say that God won't put you through more than you can stand. So again just keep the faith. And I will keep you in my prayers.

RWD,<P>Sounds to me like your wife is still very "conflicted", & confused. I myself know just how hard it is to be patient. Sounds like you have two choices - be patient, or move on. I know, they both suck!!<P>But, you didn't cause her problems, so you will not be able to fix them. Only, she can do that. Just don't forget that you are not the problem.<P>Hang in there. Remember you are not alone.<P>Personally, I'm having some real doubts about whether there are any 'normal' people out there. What is normal?<P>Take care, & keep posting...<BR>