Hello MB forum, I am new here and have recently purchased the Lovebusters book that I am reading through. My marriage of 13 years to my husband has been unraveling before my eyes and I am trying to crawl out from under this curtain of bewilderment that seems to be clouding every aspect of my life at the moment. I am hoping for some help/ advice on where to start the fixing. Here is a little about what has been going on.
-We have 3 small children and one on the way - due at the end of February
-Husband was away on business for last 3.5 months. It was about a 12 hour drive to get out there
-The kids and I drove over to visit him for 5 days over a long weekend and the trip did not go all that well because he was stressed about his job. During visit, he was pretty zoned out/ distracted, not all that engaged with us�ie. We would try to talk to him and had a hard time getting his attention. (He said he was really pretty down in the dumps about the future of his job)
I felt angry about having made the trip with 3 little kids to get such an indifferent reception but did not express how I felt to him (I am horrible at that)

-Husband seemed a little depressed for the first half of his business trip, complained of being lonely in room, got into a workout kick and did total body makeover - losing 20 lbs and taking up an exercise/running habit (good for him! He looks great!)
-One month later, he made the drive back to our house for a long weekend and comes into the house, slams car door and other stuff around, completely ignores me, gives cursory greeting to kids, eats the dinner that I saved for him and promptly falls asleep on the couch with hardly a word to me, all the while making sure I know that he is angry and in a bad mood. (This is typical behavior and has been throughout our marriage. I never know when he is going to return home in a foul mood. He is not physically abusive but he is definitely prone to AO and seems to get worked up pretty easily)
-Later after kids are in bed and he has slept for several hours, he wakes up, tells me to go take a shower (his code word for wanting to have SF) I didn't feel like meeting that need after the way he treated me up to that point and told him I was busy. (Perhaps not the best choice of action on my part) He then proceeds to blow up at me and we get into an argument where he tells me that I have let myself go and that he has never been satisfied since we first got married and that I never like to do what he likes to do (I think this is untrue and I can honestly say that I make an effort to make myself available for SF whenever he wants it - which has always been only 1x per month on average and usually I have to initiate it.) This was like a huge slap in the face as I have really tried to be a good wife. In trying to figure out this AO, I asked him if he was tempted by other women while he was gone and he said yes.
-At that point, I left and had my own AO in the shower (this is completely uncharacteristic of me - I am not an AO type of person) I just felt so used and this is the straw that broke the camel's back and started the ugly feeling that I now have in the pit of my stomach.
-We ended up talking about it and I ended up giving him SF. Neither of us like confrontation and we rarely fight. (I know that is not necessarily a good thing.) Most stuff goes unresolved because he will not engage in conversations about issues that we have.
In some respects, I appreciate knowing why he had his AO but felt like I had the wool pulled over my eyes for the entirety of our marriage and that he has not been completely honest with what his needs are and that he is blaming me for not meeting them without giving me the chance to even try.

Back to the main issue:
-While away on his business trip, he visited Washington DC and told me he was planning on visiting museums while there.
DC area was a couple of hours drive away from where he was working and he had planned on staying the weekend so he could maximize his tourist time while there.
-Since that last visit where we had a big fight, I have had an uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach, my suspicion has been aroused. I did a little snooping around and paid close attention to the things he talked about. I didn't find anything particularly alarming in my snooping except that he showed me a picture of the group of people he was hanging out with from his work�mostly guys and 1 girl, who happened to be sitting next to him in the picture. I asked him about her and noted that she appeared by the way she was leaning in toward him that she seemed to like him. He laughed it off and said she just happened to be sitting there and was an acquaintence. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time but filed that pic away in the back of my mind as it just seemed weird to me.
-I just found out last night (by asking him) that he stayed at a former co-worker's house (female) while visiting DC (Different girl from the one in the picture I mentioned above)
-I had mentioned a couple of weeks earlier that I don�t think it is ok to hang out with people of the opposite sex by oneself and that I would never do such a thing. When I didn't get a hearty agreement but more of a mumbled grunt of a response to that statement, that feeling in the pit of my stomach returned and an ugly feeling of distrust started to come over me. This is what prompted me to ask about where he stayed when he was in DC. I thought it was with a married couple that we both knew and he failed to mention that he had stayed at a single woman's house overnight whom I didn't know.
-He doesn't like dogs much and had mentioned that he had seen this particular woman's big dog and that he found the dog to be a bit annoying. This comment stuck out to me as weird because how would he know and have met this woman's dog unless he had visited her house?
-Strangely enough, I believe him when he says he never did anything with her. (perhaps I am fooling myself?) But I am hurt by the fact that he did not tell me he was planning on staying with her before he decided to go out there.
-I explained that I thought it was wrong but am concerned that he doesn't see anything wrong with having stayed there and insists that nothing happened. He then went on to say that he did not find her desireable and that she was not very good looking. This strikes me as lame because if she was, would I then be justified in calling him out on it?
-He agreed that he won't do it any more because I don't like it (to me, it seems like a half-hearted attempt to appease me because he then said he refuses to apologize for something that he didn't do)
-He then proceeds to try to turn it around on me and make me feel bad for accusing him of something he didn't and would never do. He is upset that I told him that I don't trust him. After this confrontation, I felt a little ill and my legs started to shake�weird reaction huh?
-Is it normal/ ok for me to be upset about this? I am feeling crazy and don't want to overreact but don't want to be a doormat (like I usually am) I do believe him when he says nothing happened - she doesn't seem to be his type but I am thoroughly disappointed in the lack of transparency and wonder if he was ever going to tell me. Now, I wonder what else he has kept from me over the years.
-When I asked him why he didn't tell me, he said he didn't want me to worry and my mind to wonder about him.
Ugh! How can I trust this guy? He seems to think he did nothing wrong and refuses to see things from my perspective and no amount of explaining (I was pretty polite and restrained while talking about this to him) can get through to him. Every time I try, he minimizes what I am trying to say. I want the marriage to survive but the loving feeling is rapidly starting to evaporate. We spent most of the day not talking to each other much. I made him coffee this morning, but I don't really feel like being nice to him right now. We are a mess!

Thank you for any advice you all might have.

Hi Lilly, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. Oh boy, where to start on this one.

First off, I suspect he is having an affair. And secondly, this will be impossible to resolve if you continue to live apart. His traveling job has destroyed your marriage. A marriage cannot be maintained under those circumstances.

My suggestion to you would be to hire a PI and get the goods about the affair. THEN, do your best to bust up the affair. Busting up the affair would have to involve him leaving the job, though. That is the only way out of this mess I can see.

We call that "gaslighting." Your DH knows perfectly well that you are right but he will do his best to convince you otherwise.

He will also use your angry outbursts and unhappiness as ways to to justify, in his own mind, his affair and his actions. So you need to be in a stellar plan A while you get the evidence. Be the best you can be and do not let on that you are suspicious of an affair by asking him if there is someone else. That will only alert him to be smarter.


Can you get a keylogger on his computer and spyware on his phone?

The stressed and angry attitude along with the picking of fights are all classic signs of an affair.

Have read the start here thread?

START HERE FIRST

LillyPenny:

Other classic signs of an affair:

Weight Loss/ Improved fitness.
Physical make-over.
Being "distant" to you.
"Falling asleep" as soon as you are together, after a prolonged absence (instead of want sex or intimacy.)
Your gut reaction (shakey legs, pit-of-the-stomach emptiness, feeling ill)
Not volunteering information concerning his whereabouts
Defending odd/unlikely behaviour
Making YOU feel like you are crazy (gaslighting)
Opposite sex friendships, especially with people you don't know.
Stories that don't add up
Stories that change upon questioning
Minimizing your concerns
Attacking YOU for the state of your marriage
Justifications to keep independent behaviours
Decrease in sexual interest with YOU
Being newly and increasingly argumentative
Minimizing relationships with OS members
Claiming OS "friends" are not attractive to him

Which of these is happening in YOUR marriage, LillyPenny?

Melodylane, Pokerface, and Catwhit; Thank you so much for your quick responses and I am sorry for making such a long initial post. I need to check out spyware and keyloggers...damn the iphone5 and ipad mini! I don't know if either of those devices can tell if someone has been messing with them while the user has been out. He has his phone on him most all of the time so that would be a pretty difficult thing and me being a tech-flunkie does add to the difficulty. My husband is in the military and that was why he was on a business trip for so long - due to schooling in order to get a job that would keep our family together more often. Unfortunately, I had asked him if there was somebody else during that 2nd encounter when he drove back home in a bad mood. I even said that I hoped if he ever had an affair that I would prefer him to just tell me and "cut me loose" I think I have definitely let on that I am suspicious and that is a mistake that I realized shortly after that incident when I found this site.

Moody behavior is pretty typical for him, even before we were married and severe depression runs deep in his family with one of his cousins committing suicide. Over the last few years, I have seen a pattern to his moodiness and the only reason why I think he might not be in an affair is that throughout our married life, I have been able to account for all of his time except for deployments, field exercises, and that last school-related business trip. (I know that sounds pretty sketchy but when he is home, he is either sleeping or watching movies) From what I have seen, he doesn't have the energy to pull himself off the couch to go and have a relationship with someone else and he is pretty introverted to boot. Perhaps I am just fooling myself and that is probably pretty likely since I am frustratingly inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. When things are good and he is not sleeping all day/ depressed, things are nice enough to have made me feel like sticking around

Pokerface: I had read that thread you posted last week and thought it was full of great info. I need to re-read it pronto. Gaslighting is frequently used whenever I make an attempt to resolve any type of "issue" or problem that I see in our marriage and the frustrating thing is that it is his tactic for nearly everything. Ugh!

Melodylane: We have recently moved a couple of weeks after his return from the school. We now live in a completely different state. I don't know anyone yet and feel like i am a bit stuck because of baby's upcoming due date here at the end of February. Our house is full of boxes of our stuff and my husband has started a job that requires a security clearance to be in the building. Right now, I feel like taking the kids, jumping in the car and driving out west to visit my parents just to clear my head. I don't know if depression in men has similar warning signs to affairs. He refuses to go get treatment for it because he is concerned that it would somehow adversely affect his career since nothing is truly hidden from the Armed Forces when you get high enough in rank. I was thinking that the fitness thing was a continuation of what he was doing on a recent deployment in order to find something to do and that it was a way to naturally combat depression.

Catwhit: Everything on that list is pretty spot on and seeing it all spelled out in black and white is pretty hard to stomach but helpful in that I think I needed a good slap of reality to jolt me into action. I did look up the woman he stayed with on Facebook. She is not ugly, perhaps a little masculine in her pics. She happens to work in an investigative office and I have contemplated getting in touch with her somehow but I am not sure that is a great idea. If there really is no affair and it is depression, I do not want to ruin anyone's life. She is not on his facebook friends list yet but the girl from the picture is...hmmmmm.

My head feels like it is full of oatmeal right now and I can hardly think straight enough for my prayers to consist of anything more than "help me dear Jesus!" If it is an affair, I definitely want to know about it. If it is not, I am still feeling angry about the lie by omission that he committed and would really like to talk with him more about it. Since he is gaslighting me about that one, I don't know if any more conversation about it would help. Frankly, I am not really sure how to treat him from day to day. This lie was only uncovered 2 nights ago. I don't know if I ought to even approach him about how much of a disaster I think our marriage is right now. Still working through Lovebusters on my own first

Lilly, did you read my post? Your marriage cannot recover as long as you live apart. And it is very likely he is having an affair. Your first step would be to get the evidence of the affair AND make plans to live together.

Since he is in the military his affair will be very easy to kill because adultery is illegal in the military. The military authorities will help you bust up the affair. But you must take the first steps. Hire a PI and get the evidence.

Once you do that, you will need to make plans to live together.

You should get the book Surviving an Affair (you can get it in Kindle) and read up here on the forum about Plan A. Avoid any love busters while you are in Plan A.

All the while, make sure you snoop quietly and don't let on to your H any of your suspicions. Most waywards won't confess to affairs. See if you can find a good PI to get the solid evidence.

Are you part of a spouse's group in your new location? How about PWOC or other women's groups on base where other military spouses gather?

An affair sounds very likely given the circumstances and all the travel you have detailed in your posts. Depression in men can cause them to have angry outbursts and be constantly irritable. However, you have a sneaking suspicion that more is involved than "just" depression. When spouses have that sixth sense, it's best to pay attention to it.

Thank you for your responses.
Melody lane, I am sorry, I failed to mention that we have been back living together since the middle of december when his school was over. We moved as a family on military orders on the 26th of December and are now in the process of unpacking. I did see a sign for a PI in town and may try to call him this week. Right now, My husband is in a new job away from any of the school people or former coworkers. If anything was going on between any of those women, he is not physically near them and I am thinking that media snooping might be the best way to uncover something. I might also look into getting one of those voice activated recorders for the car. I snooped his old burner phone and found one message from the doc woman but it was nothing
Incriminating and pretty. All reply mugs had been deleted from phone. He has not really used that phone except to check messages a couple of days ago. now if I could get my hands on the iPhone, that might be more revealing. Unfortunately that one is rarely out and accessible.

long way from home: I will buy that book tonight. do you think I should read it before lovebusters?

should I even let on that I am feeling down on the marriage and try and have a conversation about it with him? I will definitely follow the gut on this one. Thanks for your honesty. I need to read up on plan a a few more times.

I should also mention that I am not part of the spouses club yet but will get husband to give them my contact info this week.

That's great! So he is now home every night?


Good idea.


I would be very quiet and just start snooping right now. I appreciate that you kept this post short and to the point. It is extremely hard to understand and follow a story when the posts are overly long. Thanks.

Thank you and I will definitely try to be brief in future posts. I just purchased surviving an affair and will start on it this evening. Husband stayed holed up in room all day citing an upset stomach.

Since moving here and starting his new job, he is home every night and has normal work hours. He recently set up Facebook acct and has friended the two suspicious women. I got the phone number for one off his other phone. Should I call her?

Also I was wondering if it would be appropriate at this point to confide in someone like a sister or cousin about the overnighter. I feel that I ought to preserve his reputation until I have some solid evidence of infidelity. With no friends or relatives nearby, I feel very isolated and am starting to feel a bit down and foggy headed about this. Normally I am a motivated upbeat person.

is he in there talking on the phone?


I would not call her yet. Is he doing facebook on a computer? If so, I would quietly get a keylogger on there. A good one is eblaster. CAn you get ahold of his phone while he is sleeping and put spyware on it?


Of course. You should confide in your close relatives so you can get moral support.

Thanks for the advice! I will call my sis tonight

good deal!

He has been in there not talking on phone, but he has been sleeping, watching movies and using ipad mini to get on Facebook. I saw that he friended overnighter lady about 6 hours ago. He had friended the other lady yesterday. From what I have researched, I would have to jailbreak both devices in order to get key-loggers installed. That might be a bit above my tech level but I will check tomorrow on ipad while he is at work to see if I can get into it. He usually leaves it laying around.

Do not let him know that you are suspicious of his behavior. He is probably chatting through Facebook. Have you looked through the Operation Investigate thread for ideas on the devices?

I checked out that thread...lots of good ideas. I will try to work up the courage to get something going. When I called my sis, she also immediately thought he was having an affair just like all of you so the confirmation is good to hear from many people as I am not feeling mentally able to wrap my mind around it at this point. Right now, I just feel guilty about the snooping even though it is for a good cause. I think you are right about the Facebook chatting. I think I may be too late about the suspicious part as I have said many things over the past few months about being suspicious. Normally I am not a person easily prone to jealousy and am probably too trusting for my own good so all these pit of stomach feelings are taking me by surprise. Thank you for your input, all of you! Maybe I will try to have a conversation with a lawyer over the next couple of weeks to see what I am in for if I push on through this and uncover the ugliness. In my sister's book, the lie of omission was enough to make her want to leave.

This thread explains gaslighting:
Please explain gaslighting

Lilly, we can tell you what you are in for if you push through and uncover the affair. That will give you the best chance at recovery. And even if you decide you want to leave the marriage, you need to find out the facts about your own life. If you decide to get divorced, I seriously doubt you want to be attending graduations and sporting events with his OW. Lawyers are only experienced in facilitating divorces. They have no experience in busting up affairs and saving marriages.