Thanks JK...

You're exactly right, my father wants things to go back the way they were...

which of course they never can.

Thanks for the support!!!

Your dad is being extremely selfish and only thinking of himself. You have told him many times how you cannot be with your ex-brother and why. It's so easy to tell people to "get over it" when it is not their ox being gored, isn't it? So easy to say callous things like "get over it," "rise above it" or "be the bigger person" when it is someone else who must face their rapist.....

Blair B Fin,

My father believed in the beginning that forgiveness was equated with reconciliation which is not always the case especially in this case.

I have explained it to him this way regarding forgiveness not always equating reconciliation:

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forgave those who crucified Him...

But...

He did not return to those who had crucified Him to be crucified again after His Resurrection.

He forgave them but He did not return to them to be murdered yet again.

So it is with my forgiveness of my ex-brother.

Forgiveness but not reconciliation.

God Bless.

Jim

Wise response. I am sorry about your father's stance.

AM

Agree.

Thanks for stopping by Jim. Sorry your dad still remains selfish.

Glad you're staying strong on the NC and that you and your W are doing well.

Peace, my friend.

I know that with some old people, and JF said his dad is quite old. They only see what the truth is to them. That his family is broken. He wants to know his family is healed. To his dad that means they are all together once again before his time here is done.

His dad is not a disciple of Dr Harly. You talk to him about NC and he thinks you are talking about North Carolina.

Old people tend to get set in their ways and chose to not learn new tricks. Attacking his dad because of his ignorance is not right.

Jim, I am glad you are sticking to your guns. Be strong but be patient with your dad. Remember because as you will not change on NC you can not expect your dad to change either. You both have opposing goals.

Just stay consistent and calm in your responses to your dad whenever he mentions NC. Then quickly change the subject. He will not stop you calmly hang up. In person, calmly grab your coat and hat and leave, calmly. No need to fight.

It has nothing to do with being a "disciple of Dr Harley." It has everything to do with simple respect and thoughtfulness. "Old people" are not exempt from those traits. You are not exempt and I am not exempt. Jim has explained to him in numerous ways that he and his wife will not heal if contact is resumed with his ex-brother so it can't be said he does not understand.

I know plenty of elderly people who use their age as an excuse for doing whatever they want without regard for others.

I so agree with this. Old people should be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard. They know better!

The greatest lesson anyone with age can pass on to those who are younger is the reality that there are consequences to our actions. Who ever made the rule that consequences end? Some consequences last a lifetime, and people should know this.

I think young folks believe they can do whatever they want and are entitled to forgiveness. That is a fallacy and that belief is why so much bad [censored] is around today.

I agree 100% with Jim...what a great way to live by your convictions.

Hello Neak,

So nice to see you and many other familiar faces are still around helping people through the most difficult thing anyone can ever go through...

I agree completely that it is so important to let my dad know I love him even though he is really acting like an A$$ right now.

I was able to tell him that I love him before he hung up...

I didn't want the last words I may have ever said to him to be words of anger...

Thank you...

God Bless.

Jim

Hey Black Raven,

Great to see you still around helping others!!!

Yep, I agree with both you and Neak that letting my dad know I love him is so important.

Thanks!!!

God Bless.

Jim

Your father can't stick a fast band-aid on your pain and magically make everything better. You have carefully thought things out, and you didn't say anything to him in anger or haste.

It is wise to continue to protect your family, even if you have to protect them from your dad's insistence that everything magically be better so HE can feel better.

I received lots and lots of life-saving post-adultery support from people who have never heard of MB. In fact my WXH's family cast him off in disgust and in support of me, even though they knew they would have no post-divorce relationship with me. To this day not one of them has ever heard of the phrase "marriagebuilders". They were simply good people who belived in marriage and were disgusted by adultery.

Not one of these people would ever in their wildest dreams expect me to kiss and make up with the OW. If she were my sister, their disgust would only have been heightened.

If my dad had been told the OW was my sister - then my sister would not be anywhere near my family today, or if she were very remorseful she would at the very least be kept away from me. He is not the kind of man who would endure that in a daughter.

MB does not have an exclusivity on morality. There are plenty of decent, moral people who have never heard of MB.

People may be uneducated about MB, but not about the basic facts of right and wrong. It's not any kind of excuse.

It's easy to start thinking that it is only MBers who suport marriage but that simply is not true. If it were, exposure would never ever work.

Anyone who thinks a BS can chitchat with the OP has a very casual, alarming and strange attitude to affairs. Time and time again whenever I see this casual attitude it is usually from people who think affairs are OK and they have had one themselves.

Hello indiegirl,

My family lost my mother a few years ago and my father started seeing a classmate of his who is now his ladyfriend. She actually is a very nice lady who respects my mothers memory and our family space and seems to be very good for my father.

You make a very good point about a possible 'ambush' with a surprise meeting being setup with my ex-brother. My W and I actually had that pulled on us.

My youngest son married a few years ago and we informed his new mother in law that we would not be inviting my ex-brother and the reason for not doing so.

Lo and Behold,

Guess who showed up at the wedding because they were INVITED by my son's new MIL!!!!

My ex-brother and his W!!!

We haven't spoken to MIL or FIL since....

My father has witnessed the estrangement from MIL and FIL and I don't really think he wants to be permanently estranged from our family...but who knows, I could be wrong...

I do and the rest of the family also wonders about his lack of empathy, particularly after the doubts of his fidelity to my mother...

I do think he cheated on my mother with at least two women who I remember their names being mentioned in arguments between them...

I use to take my sister and go for very long walks during those arguments for which my sister has told me many, many times how thankful she was that I was there for her.

She is all the nuclear family I have left besides my dad who is hanging on by a thread.

Thanks for making some very good points.

God Bless.

Jim

You are very welcome Jim and my heart bleeds to think of you having to fight this battle within your family. It is so hard when family do not support us.



That was my suspicion because he seems not just keen - but desperate - to get this 'oh isn't this row so silly' deal brokered. It made my wayward radar go off the charts.

I think his need for you to forgive is not as cut-and-dried as it seems.

After losing your mother, just imagine what realisations he has gone through as to what he did to her. Death is the ultimate Plan B with no means of recovery, no repentance option for the WS.

You really do not appreciate what you have until it is gone. That must be immensely painful. His guilt must have bloomed and he has tried to bury the significance of adultery. Made it out to himself to be no big deal.

If you forgive your brother, then that strengthens his inner view of the 'no big deal' approach. He is trying to get a sneaky 'back door' forgiveness for his infidelity by seeing you forgive it in your brother.

While I feel for his suffering - Don't!

Forgiveness is to be earned and he can't get it via the backdoor.

Have you considered confronting him about it? If you want a relationship with him you simply can't have skeletons like this lurking in wait.

MelodyLane,

Hello my old friend ,

So good to see you are still here helping folks like myself who came here so many years ago looking for a way out of the hell i was in.

Thank you and everyone else who helped me and Mrs.Flint!!!

Anyone who wants to know if MB works can read my thread and see for themselves.

You're right about when it's someone else ox being gored. I see time and time again where someone says to just get over it...until it is them that has to 'just get over it'!!!

I do think part of my dad's lack of empathy may have to do with the fact that my dad may very well also be an adulterer who doesn't see what the big deal is about my brother...

Great to see you again!!!

God Bless.

Jim

Hello armymama,

Great to see you again!

Thanks for your thoughts about my dad.

God Bless.

Jim

Hello BrainHurts,

Good to see you are still here!!!

Mrs.Flint and I are doing so well, it just sucks that dad can't see what a miracle it is that my family survived a disaster that would have ended most marriages.

It didn't thank to MB!!!

God Bless.

Jim

Hello The Road,

Agree with the part of your post about staying calm and just asserting my position without letting him get to me about the family and NC.

I DISAGREE though about his age being an excuse for his actions.

Moral behavior should be EXPECTED regardless of whether he knows about MB or not.

I am really angry with him that he doesn't take a moral stand against my ex-brother. I DO think he should be taking a firm stand in front of the family that wrong is wrong and that there ARE consequences for our actions....some of which are permanent.

Thanks for your thoughts.

God Bless.

Jim