Just an update that he has been reading and listened to a bunch of radio broadcasts this weekend. It did bring up some promising conversation.

We still had unpleasant DJ conversation this weekend as well, which just drains me & the LB like crazy.
There are things that we talked about, some of my LB to him, but he wants me to make first move. I feel stuck.

He says he wants me to be free to write on here, but yesterday when I asked if he needed anything while he was driving to get my DS from his dads, he told me to go on MB forum and say a bunch of nice things about him.
He meant it.
I admit that I don't understand it. I think y'all can help but I have no desire for him to come on here and sing my praises. I don't understand his need for approval from here. I'm looking for accountability and a "way to go" for real and substantial things. Am I missing something?

I'm sorry things are still rough.


This is good. Ernie is showing some effort. Has he read the Love Busters book yet?


Did he realize he was DJ'ing you? Did he stop when you quietly said, "Ouch"?


Wow. I am not sure what to say about this one. Have you tried saying "It bothers me when ___" to see if he understands this? To me, it seems like Ernie is undermining you by telling you to go tell the forum a bunch of nice things about him. (Especially if he isn't being particularly nice, you know what I mean?)

The vets will probably respond in the morning. Hang in there for now.

Him saying he wants you to come on here and say a bunch of nice things about him is probably due to his need for admiration. Dr. Harley says he usually works on that late because it generally needs to be sincere, and sincere admiration comes from your needs being met and no Lovebusters. Ernie stopped writing on the forum, so he can't get the advice that he's not going to get anywhere by demanding admiration from you.

If you write on here a bunch of insincere admiration, it will be dishonesty that will hurt your marriage by hiding your complaints.

Sorta yeah.

You don't have an emotional need for admiration. That's why you wouldn't ask him to do this.

He does. Not having an EN met is a bit like being starved. So it's fine for him to ask for this need, just as it would be OK to ask for affection or some DS help.

But you don't have to if it isn't there or the atmosphere for you to meet that need has not been provided. It's actually his responsibility to get his own needs met by providing the right atmosphere. Just as the person with a DS need has to support the other or the person with a high SF need need to provide romance pre-love making.

If he wants admiration he will have to create the kind of atmosphere where you can best and most easily give it.

I take it telling you to say nice things on here hasn't really worked that angle

Elaina, when he starts talking like that, it's important to end the conversation. Prevent the love bank withdrawals.

He needs to permit you to do this - he should not demand that you participate in a conversation where you feel like he is being disrespectful.

There is a whole chapter on this and plan to achieve it in His Needs, Her Needs!

Thank you for the replies.
He is reading LoveBusters right now. WE aren't doing the worksheets with it though, maybe after he reads it once.

One problem is that many times, I don't realize that he is DJing me until after the convo is over: or I suddenly feel really bad and sick in my stomach. Later, I think and can see that it was DJ's but it is hard in the moment. I will try harder.

I didn't say 'ouch' or anything, just kept on talking but I still feel bad about the conversation. I should talk to him about it, but I feel fear (not physically, but the words/emotions he will have towards me)and am not feeling good enough to try to overcome it.

Ok, thanks for the insight on the admiration need. I had no idea that was such a strong need. When we filled out our EN worksheets he had it lower on the scale. I have more understanding knowing that it is just what he needs emotionally, but I don't and won't do it out of a demand or atmosphere of not wanting to.

He went away after feeling like he was going to be banned and felt like people were telling him to go away. I have no idea if he will post again, but am sure he is reading.

You could work on an agreement to stop the conversation when you begin to not feel right or feel hurt, whether you can give it a name at the time or not.

His feelings aren't the only ones, here, to be considered, and he should be making sure you don't feel fearful of his reaction. That's what he needs to do to keep it safe.


Poppycock.

Based on what was written and when he left, he didn't want to hear that he's got to change.

What's he reading? Your thread where you're advised about what you can do?
That's not going to help him get advice or encouragement to do his part for a mutually fulfilling marriage with you.

I was informed that one person can't save a marriage. You can't save yours by yourself, either. That's what is happening when you focus on only one spouse's feelings most of the time.

I agree with what LL has said in the whole post. This part stands out to me, because I thought this same thing. Ernie has many people that have offered to help. There is no reason for him to give up on his thread. Especially if he wants a great marriage. Actions do speak louder than words.

You should not engage in any conversation that makes you feel bad, even if you don't understand why you feel bad in the moment.

Ernie listen up - that was the wrong response. The RIGHT response was to change your offensive behavior, not run away.

The point is that if you are going to be abusive toward Elaina and not work to fix the problem (argue that it's not such a big problem or is really her fault, etc.), she needs to be protected from you. But the real solution to that is for you to learn to stop abusing her. Not to run away.

Get back here, ASAP.

Elaina, LL and BBf are right - don't fall for this or any other ruse for Ernie doing LESS about his abuse instead of MORE.

Ernie will earn lots of admiration from us when he stops abusing his wife!

If he doesn't fully engage with what needs to be done, you need to be preparing to separate from him, Elaina.

Would it be alright if I gave him a LB worksheet that is more like a one page, this is what it will take to keep me in the marriage?

I don't want him to engage in SD, DJ's or AO.
He just doesn't see or understand when he is engaging in them.
I am not good at knowing its going on till later (but the damage has already been done).
If I tell him later that it happened, he argues with me that I was wrong, or even telling him is a DJ, or he then goes on a rampage telling me what I am doing wrong instead of addressing the issue.

I don't want to do it with disrespect but it is hard for me to know if I really am being disrespectful, or he is just saying that to hurt me as he is upset that I hurt him. (does that make sense-or is thinking this a DJ)

There are also numerous other issues with AH, IB, and DH that are so large I am not sure how to even start to address them. They can't even be brought up until I can get the first 3 under control.
That would include our Financial situation, child discipline, his hoarding outside..etc.

I feel overwhelmed.

Also, I will not separate from him for a chance at reconciliation. If I leave him, we are done. I just know myself and if it really came to that, there is no way I would give him another chance.

This is similar to Dr. Harley's example of your spouse taking your letter and throwing it away, as I see it.

It is a DJ if Ernie tells you are wrong to feel the way you do. And then having an AO about how "wrong" you are is even worse than the initial DJ! (Ernie needs to get back on his own thread for help, but he needs to figure that out for himself.)

Have you tried writing things down in a notebook so that you can remove yourself from the conversation? I think there as a Love-Busters worksheet somewhere about this, but I'm not sure if I can find it.

Elaina,

How is Ernie doing on the DJ's and the AO's? Those need to be GONE for you to feel safe talking with him. Just like you mentioned early in your thread, each love-buster is like hitting you with a verbal 2x4. It seems like Ernie could fly of the handle at any moment you are talking to him, and you never know when. (He's a walking stick of dynamite and you never know if the fuse is already lit!) This probably makes you really hesitant to talk to him.

MelodyLane suggested you do the MB online course/coaching and that Ernie go through Anger Busters, a program that Dr. Harley approves of. Has Ernie completed the Anger Busters program? Are you both doing the MB online course/coaching?

Have you seen how far Ernie has read in the Love Busters book? (Halfway?) It's been months since he was going to read it. Is he making progress on the reading or is he spending 10 minutes a week on reading? If he does spend time reading, can you apply a huge compliment about how you love it when he reads the MB books?

Something else to keep in mind is that if you really aren't being disrespectful to him, but he is claiming that you are, that could be a form of gaslighting. After so long of being in this abusive situation, it becomes more difficult to see which direction things really are. Many of us who get stuck in that situation have a difficult time seeing what is really happening to us, and we start to question ourselves. Without telling us (because Ernie probably still reads your thread), have you thought about how soon you would separate if Ernie does not change his abusive behavior?

Hang in there, Elaina. Many of us are praying for you.

We have tried writing out our complaints-but that ends more disastrous than speaking. I think his letters are cruel and angry where he swears that wasn't his intent. He doesn't respond well at all to my letters- doesn't seem to understand what I am saying, so I gave up writing. It really ends WAY worse than trying to talk.

Thank you for the support. It means a bunch to me!

Elaina, going by what you have said you've raised your complaints and they are either atacked or ignored.

You'll have to set a deadline for how long you'll endure that before separation.

If you don't it will be 20 years and nothing will have changed.

I have seen him do it on his thread too where your complaints are described as some sort of enormous inconvenience. His mindset is constantly set in how to 'attack' or 'block' your complaints. He simply never even considers resolving them.

In such a situation you will have to seriously consider separation and preparing for that.

In the meantime, just keep your side of the street clean. We can only control ourselves and what we will accept from others.

But you can't just give up - this problem has to be solved or your marriage is going to be miserable, probably eventually affecting your physical and emotional health. He has to learn how to receive your complaints without becoming demanding, disrespectful, or angry, and he has to learn to make his own complaints without becoming demanding, disrespectful, or angry.

If he is unwilling to do this or claims that he is unable to do it, then you need to prepare for a separation to protect yourself from him.