NED,

I understand you are in Alanon.
I occasionally attend meetings.

What contact do you have with your ex husband?
As a general rule, Harley advocates No Contact between divorces.

TC, I'm totally okay with it, I understand not wanting to have to wash her clothes at two houses and all that. We're very close, so I'm not worried yet.

I am very blessed with great friends here, and they have been great about spending time together. I'm going with a work friend to a concert tomorrow night, and went with another fried, her granddaughter and my daughter to a carnival Saturday. We had a big get together yesterday with my family for my nephew's first birthday. So I guess I just have to keep showing up and waiting for it to sink in. Oh man I forget things can change on a dime, I hope they don't this time!

Hi Jedi, I've heard about NC while in Plan B, but hadn't heard of long term NC. Any ideas where I could read more about that? I did go NC for a vert short period of time when I was very heartsick about him and it helped. But especially now in the meantime phase it's very helpful to have him around the corner when I need help with something like picking up YD if I'm stuck at work.

How helpful is contact with him if you need Alanon to detach from him?

I didn't start going to Alanon to detach from him, but to try to save my marriage and my family. I found I could save myself and my kids anyway. I hear you, I check my intent before calling him for anything, and most of the time can figure out how to rig things up well enough myself But there are some limited things we still do all together like celebrated DD18's birthday last week.

Is he an alcoholic?

Maybe like stage 1 or something. I wouldn't agree for the kids to go there if I thought his drinking put them in any danger. OD drives when they go out. YD knows she can call me whenever and I'll pick her up no questions asked.

I dont know what stage 1 is.
Is he watching a child while intoxicated?

Yes, if you are a trained drug and alcohol and substance abuse counselor (DASA) and have all the truth from the alcoholic about their drinking history and patterns you could describe which stage they are currently in, BUT alcoholism is a Progressive disease and Will advance to the next 2 stages.

The bottom line is:

A) He IS an alcoholic

Or

B) He is NOT an alcoholic

What you just did by minimizing the impact of whether or not he is an alcoholic is called Minimizing and Rationalization.

I hope that helps you to see your own denial and blinders you have learned to put on to avoid the inherent factual accuracy of whether he is or isn't an alcoholic.

LTL

Yes. I don't like it, and the kids know that they can come here whenever they want regardless of whose week it is. The are both over here a lot.

LTL, I'm not trying to minimize the impact. B and I were both children of alcoholics and I know the impact is profound. I don't disagree that it will progress, that's what the disease does. And I'm not around, so for all I know it's already progressing.

Children should not be around an intoxicated person.
Dr. Harley would encourage you to take legal steps to prevent this

As far as I understand it I don't have a right to modify visitation over him being intoxicated. When we first divorced he stopped drinking the weeks they were there, but I don't know how long that lasted. The kids lived like this many years while we were married, and it doesn't alarm them. I've taken them to Alateen so they can understand they didn't cause this and it's not up to them to fix it. OD has an IC, I can talk to him about what the options are, maybe he can talk to her about it being a better option for her to live here full-time.

Yes you absolutely do have a right to bring this to the Courts attention!
An intoxicated person is not fit to supervise children, irregardless of whether or not the child goes to Alanon.

I would report it to Children Services and ask your attorney to order a drug and alcohol test; file for modification of the custody so you have full custody.

The 18 year old can live wherever she wants; I'm referring to the minor child

I will talk to OD's IC and see if he has any suggestions. I called CPS about my FOO and it never did any good, so I am reluctant to go that route. Over a year ago when my YD talked to me about it, I talked to my ex about going back to not drinking when the kids are there, but he said it's not a problem.

I don't mean to sound like I have just been sitting in denial all this time. We have been to 4 MCs, 2 FCs, and OD to 3 ICs, including her current one, and I've mentioned to all of them that B's daily drinking is a problem and I was concerned especially because OD had a spell with problem drinking as well. None of them said I should call CPS here or called CPS themselves. I know CPS does great work with kids in danger and if I thought he was driving them intoxicated I would have called already and he knows this.

Of course he doesn't think its a problem. Alcoholism is irrational. Expecting him to be concerned is not very rational either.

I would call an attorney for guidance.
Dr Harley is very opposed to kids being raised by active alcoholics

Your teenage daughter was exposed to alcoholism and is now abusing alcohol.
How long until the youngest daughter does the same?
It is YOUR responsibility to protect your child

NED,

I hope you take Jedi's advice to heart. Have you ever contacted Dr. Harley?

I haven't contacted Dr. H. I had a session with Steve in 2006 and my ex and I each had a session with him in 2008 but somehow I didn't register my ex's drinking as the pressing issue at those points and neither of us mentioned it.

I do take Jedi's words to heart. Somehow it is coming off here like I have been just sweeping this under the rug, but this is something that I have taken seriously for quite some time. My OD doesn't currently drink at all, she has been passing the screens she gets in the youth program she is in. She's been dealt a rough hand not just the drinking, and when she first went to the IC it wasn't one of the issues she was asking for help with; she had some bigger mental health struggles. We have a session tomorrow and I can talk to the IC again then.

Thats good but you need to focus on removing your youngest daughter from being under the care and custody of your ex husband while intoxicated.
You need to visit an attorney