yeah... having read a lot from this website and SAA book, the little red flag did pop in my mind as I was writing about this male friend of hers...
She has a great relationship and communication with all her family and I know they could be so supportive to her, but at the same time she has a few close friendships back home, mostly girl friends, with the only exception of this guy (who, by the way, used to have feelings for her, before he got married himself. Now he has two children as well). All I know about him is that he's happily married and at least he lives in another city. I never really liked him, though, but I never really worried about him either! Now, thinking aloud about this, I am a little worried, also knowing he's a good motivational speaker.. He might not have any interest at all in her, but she's so vulnerable right now...
Please do not mention me the possibility/risk of her ending up or already having an affair... unfortunately I know too well how this all starts off...

I definitely need her to join the MB programme...

I would put all of your efforts into moving close to your wife so you CAN recover the marriage. That will not happen as long as distance divides you. And living close to the OW, as you do now, makes this situation worse.

My reaction to the above is that your wife doesn't know how to create trust and that is the purpose of the list of EP's. I wouldn't argue that point with her, though. I would just give her all of your passwords, links, everything. She can do with it what she chooses, but it proves you are being open.

In the meantime, I would move heaven and earth to find a way to move close to her.

Excellent radio clip where Dr. H talks about what a WH should do for his wife to give him another try after his affairs. He explains it like an addict.

Radio Clip on a WH on what to do to get back with his wife 3:50 mark

Hi Mane,

I have not made it through the whole thread yet, but I want to explain something to you. You really are not the one to determine why your wife does not need to know who the OW is. Whether she ever does anything with the information or not is up to her. Telling your wife who the other person is, how you met her, everything that went on with the OW, how you hid the affair from your BS, the secret way you would contact each other when BS was around, etc. - these are things your BS NEEDS to know for her own sanity and security. It will be empowering to her to know this information. More than you will EVER know.

You really don't have the right to dictate how your wife will respond if she ever meets this other woman. Give that power over to your betrayed wife. She has the right to handle it however she needs to handle it.

It will go A LONG WAY if you become completely transparent with any and all information.

As a betrayed spouse, I am speaking from my heart to you. You may never know where this has taken her mind, the things she now thinks and worries about, the depth of hurt and the way this whole betrayal has affected her security and peace. Because of that, you HAVE to just become completely transparent. No ego, no pride.

Please listen to the people who are guiding you in your thread. You acknowledged that some of the information was causing you concern. Just know that they have helped countless people recover their marriages. They know why these things are important for you to do, even if you don't see it right now. There is a lot you don't know right now. If you listen to these people, do the work, you will learn a LOT. Emotionally, you are not in the same place as your wife. Please quit thinking with your own understanding, and let the people who are responding to you help you.

What you NEED to do his give the information on OW and remove OW from your life with no contact and EPs (extraordinary precautions). Please list your EPs, I find it very disturbing that you proclaim to know what your wife needs to do when you had the affair, sir.

I don't usually take part in forums because, as posts and the number of participants increase, things tend to become a bit noisy and it's difficult to remain focused on the core of the discussion.
But I am here now and I have created this thread because my wife and I are going through the harshest time of our life and both need a lot of guidance. And because I believe the MB programme is the most credible one I do value the advice coming from all of you.

Maybe I sound like I'm fighting against the EPs and I apologize if this is the message I'm passing, but all I'm doing is just asking questions.

The current update about my EPs:

1) killed my FB account and email address

2) blacklisted the OW in my cellphone (no SMS or call can get through)

3) sent the NC letter to the OW

4) gave my wife full access to my computers, emails, phone loges etc.. everything is open for her to check, either continuously or just from time to time as she wishes [NOTE: she said she does not want to do so, but she wants to regain her trust not having to feel paranoid about anything]

5) gave my wife all contact details of the OW

6) I do not go out at all (except for going to work), to avoid any risk of coming across the OW

7) I'm in the process of exposing the affair to my relatives - one at a time


What is not being done, yet, or being partially done:

1) exposure to my wife's side of the family (for the reasons I explained in a previous post, there are language barriers for me to do it and my wife herself does not want to do it to spare them from the pain)

2) sharing details of my daily schedule (partially done) [NOTE: same as above, my wife says she does not want or feel the need to control everything I do. Nevertheless, I usually pass her the information of what I'm doing and what I'll do next]

3) spend nights and leisure time together (huge geographical distance is not really helping here. I reside and work in Kazakhstan, she is now back home in Poland)

4) change job and relocate (being attempted, but affected by several constraints which make the process slow & I cannot simply quit, move back and then look for another job cause we need a stable income)

Item 4 is a big red flag.
In recovering from an affair, we must remove the conditions which made the affair possible.
Furthermore, dr Harley advises all couples to spend every night together.

You need to decide what is more important: job or marriage

Mane, welcome. I'll just say ditto to what littlebit wrote.

I'm impressed by what you have accomplished so far.

I'm also impressed to see that you are reading Neak's thread. It's important for you to read and very few WS' do.

I hope you stick around

mane, this is the deal breaker. I would make this process as fast as possible even if it means taking a leave of absence. All of those other things are great, but they won't advance your marriage to recovery if you aren't together. You can't recover a marriage when you aren't there. Your marriage is on its death bed. It won't ever recover as long as you live apart. Living apart is a disaster for good marriages, it is worse for crippled marriages.

Is there anything you can do to speed up this process?

* nevermind - already addressed

bad



worse



worst

I'm sorry Mane but I am extrememly alarmed by this. I was pleased to see her be see tough with you and make you work for recovery.. but honestly that isn't really the natural reaction of most BW's.

We usually have to coach them into being tough. They are usually heartbroken, weepy and clingy.

Instead she's skipped off home (please don't say she wanted 'space') and is pouring her heart out to an old admirer? This is deadly dangerous.

You 'don't know much about him' = that means the content of their discussions wasn't really reported to you.

He is 'happily married' = clearly he is not. He can't give his wife much thought or honesty if he pours so much effort into a connection with an old flame. If he or your wife claims he is 'happily married' it is for the illusion of safety. Also, however happily married he may be, his a wife cannot compete with an old fantasy of love; a vulnerable and betrayed former love who needs a 'knight in shining armour' at that.

She is more attractive now than she has ever been.

Last but not least he lives in another city. She will never have to look his wife and kids in the eye and their fantasy will be completely unimpeded by reality. If he has the sense god gave a dog he will also find a way to visit his poor heartbroken friend in person before you can get home.




X 1000. Not only can you not recover where you are, you can't even protect from additional complications. A WW is a million times harder to recover with than a WH. A WH splits his heart in two but WW's give their heart away entirely. Even if it doesn't reach PA status soon, it is well on the way to being an EA. I would bet my savings that it already is.

Can you get some emergency leave and go home, even if it just for a few weeks?

That way you can investigate or delay this problem with her friend. You could also Plan A, and may even be able to persuade her to come back with you.

If you cannot, I'd try to get her involved in some agreement where you can leave the job because a job isn't as important as your marriage.

Indiegirl,

thanks for the insights. I really prefer not to think about that risk and work my way home instead.

It is a total mess with my expat job, cause I do not have the possibility to simply leave. The best I can do in the very short term is try to take some days vacation and try to be there with my wife and hope to negotiate coming back here all together, while I settle things for the relocation..
A full relocation, with or without another job, will take me about two months, unfortunately.

That is like ignoring a house fire.



Can you tell your boss that the toll of your long distance job means your marriage is on the line and arrange some emergency leave? If you have to self expose to achieve this, then do it. Is it possible to work online or long distance? Can you cut any kind of a deal with your boss?

In your shoes I would at least try to negotiate something .

Hi Mane,

It seems as if your W was interested enough in your Marriage to at least dip her toes into the MB Pond.

No matter what though, you have plenty of room for self improvement and i hope you stick around and post regularly to achieve those personal goals.

Regardless, prepare for this to be a marathon instead of a sprint.

LTL

Hi LTL and everyone,

Sorry if I did not post much this last couple of days. Things have been quite "static".

Indeed, my wife has come here and opened her thread. Gives me some hope that we can try this together.

Also, last things I heard from her are that she took the courage to expose the affair to her parents. While I'll leave it to her to talk about it on this forum, now I have one more reason to pursue this programme even harder, to show my extended family that I'm not the loser that they now think I am.

Another thing she said last Sunday night, is that she is willing to come back, or be with me, but only when I manage to erase the OW from my mind and that she cannot give me any support while I am in this process of elaborating the withdrawal.
Maybe I can do that alone, but I thought one of the strongest point of the EPs is that we need to be together as much as possible, despite how cruel that might sound to the BS. I believe this, because when I'm alone the mind tends to deviate sometimes and slows things down. There is no contact at all now, all bridges are blown, but I now wanna be on the highway towards recovering the marriage, not in a swamp.

When is the soonest you can move?

The OW will be erased when your mind is filled with something better: YOUR WIFE. That is why it is so important for you to be together now creating a happy, romantic, passionate marriage. If your wife will come back, it will be critical that you move somewhere far from skanky. She should not be crossing your paths EVER. Can you do that?

If not, I would move to where your wife is so you are away from the OW.

"Elaborating the withdrawl?"

I sure hope you aren't telling your wife that you are in "withdrawl" from your affair partner

Well, she has started reading the website and understood for herself that I might be going through such thing.
I'm telling her that now that the affair is over and the EPs are being put in place, my mind is clearing day after day and opening more and more on how much I miss her, instead.

Dr. Harley defines withdrawal as "a compulsive craving with intense feelings of anxiety and depression"...
Right now I don't feel I'm in that state. Though I wish to erase all my memory at once, right now I can't say I'm suffering that much at all and I hope it will stay this way and keep improving.


Yes, I can do that.
It is not easy at all to find a proper job for me in Poland near where she stays, but I'm actively looking for other opportunities in Europe and hope she'll be up to moving together.

In the meantime, I asked her if I can go over there for some days. No answer, yet.


Another update I forgot about: I am trying to schedule a session with Dr. Harley.

Dr Harley ended his private counseling.
He still takes calls and answers emails.

However you have already been told the same things that he would tell you himself.