Why?

Have you shown your husband this thread?

Have you invited him here? Have you asked him to email Dr. Harley? He either needs to get involved either here or with Dr. Harley if he wants to save this family. Markos is still available by email.

Again, an in-house separation doesn't work. If you are going to separate, you need to separate completely. Otherwise, you are just making things worse in the long run.

Well, that's only part of it. There has to be a commitment from both of you. And there have to be several other pieces put in place.

One important piece that needs to be put in place is complaining. Both of you need to be able to complain to each other about the problems you have in the marriage, and to act on those complaints.

It's not a program where you just become more respectful and hope your husband gets better on his own while you quietly wait. That doesn't work.

From the great Marriage Builder Pepperband:
Complain about your spouse to your spouse

From Dr. Harley:
When should you tell your spouse "we have a problem"

Question: we really need to know if your husband said yes or no to the proposals we've made in this thread.

Jazzy, if your husband is willing to do the things we have been suggesting here, your marriage can probably be saved.

If he will not do these things, there is probably no hope for your marriage.

But I don't seem to see an answer - will he, or won't he? What exactly have you asked him to do? Has he refused any of these suggestions?

Let me just mention that even if you do move on and marry someone else, you will still have to learn all of these things in order to have a good marriage. They are much easier to learn in a first marriage than in a later marriage.

I just don't like being around him anymore. Whenever I am around him, I think of the hateful looks he makes and the mean things he has said. When I am in the guest room I feel at peace. I do not trust him to be nice to me. I feel he is just waiting on me to let my guard down so he can go back to status quo.

That's true. It would be better for the kids.

I just fear this is my last chance to have a baby, and I want to enjoy the remainder of my pregnancy in peace.

I asked him and he said he wants to do MB and will email you. I am going to ask a mod for your email address.

Markos, my husband sent you an email last night.

Here it is.
Radio Clip of Carly's question

JazzyMom, I'm sorry it took me so long to reply, but I finally sent him a response last night. He sounds very sincere and earnest in making things right - what do you feel are the main obstacles that would make it unlikely?

Thank you for emailing my husband, Markos. He found your email helpful.

As for our main obstacles - a few weeks ago, I would have said that I was very emotionally closed to him and that it was making it very difficult to move forward. Last week, I finally began to feel something for him again. I did see the effort he was making and I thought we were making progress. I was worried, though, that he was just waiting for me to let my guard down so he could go back to his old habits, and that has turned out to be the case.

Last night, he went out to a happy hour for work. When he came home, he said he had been drinking and didn't want to help get the kids fed and put to bed. I tried to talk to him about it, but he kept interrupting every time I started talking and wouldn't let me get a single point across. Then, he "apologized" without having acknowledged anything I was trying to say and in a manner that did not seem at all sincere. Finally, he just ignored me and went to sleep. I found his behavior to be very rude and disrespectful. We spoke briefly this morning and he apologized and asked what he could do to fix it. I don't know. I want him to stop this kind of behavior altogether.

Another thing that happened is that after reading the section on radical honesty, he admitted that he has not been honest throughout our marriage.

A couple of years ago, I caught him lying about having to be in a meeting with coworkers when he was really just hanging out at a bar with them. And again, last spring, I had suspicions and told him that I knew his work required going out in the evenings, but that I would appreciate if he would come home on the nights the hanging out is just for fun and not part of entertaining customers. He agreed that was reasonable, and then weeks later blew up at me about interfering with his career, etc.

Well, now he has admitted that it has been typical behavior of his to say he needed to be at something when he really didn't. I was just floored to find that he has left me with all of this responsibility under the guise of "working" while really just hanging out.

I used to really trust him, and now I don't at all. He never seemed to be hiding anything and I just assumed he'd always been faithful, but what if I am wrong? And I have no way of verifying his activities. For instance, today, he said he has all day meetings and then needs to leave for out of town. How do I know whether or not that is true?

He really doesn't seem to respect me or value me as a wife and mother, and these actions are the result. I wonder if these things have gone on too long to really change. I tried to change things for years via various books and programs, and even counseling with an MC or pastor. Maybe we would have had a better chance if I'd found the right thing sooner.

I am feeling very resentful about spending my pregnancy working through these things. It is such a special time. I am getting older, and may never have this opportunity again.

Oh, and the other time I caught him lying in our marriage was 12 years ago when my oldest was 1. His old girlfriend was on the high school reunion committee and started emailing him after the reunion. We went to all the activities together and he even talked to her right in front of me and I had no idea about the secret emails. Another high school friend of theirs knew about it and was encouraging them to be together.

I can't remember all the details, but one day, he said something odd about her calling and him telling her not to call anymore, and that made me suspicious. I checked his email account and found about 10 emails back and forth. They were flirtatious, but when she started getting sexual and talking about meeting up, he stopped communicating with her.

About a week after this, she called our home and hung up whenever I answered. I called back and confronted her and told her to stay away from him. She asked if I knew about his activities and I said yes I did and told her I'd read all the emails. She seemed surprised, so that is how I knew it hadn't gone any further. Then, I called my husband and told him off and told him I was throwing all his stuff outside, and he rushed home from work. I got all three of us on the phone and made him tell her to stay away. She tried to apologize and I refused to accept, and have also refused to speak to the "friend" that encouraged the whole thing.

The whole thing was very humiliating, and I told him I would never forgive anything like that again. He has never again behaved suspiciously re: email, phone, etc. so I assumed there hadn't been anything else, but if guess I could be wrong...

When he confessed about the work stuff, I asked if there was anything (or anyone) else and he said no.

Is he an alcoholic?

It sounds like your husband had an emotional affair 12 years ago. Today, he still has very poor boundaries. That, combined with his lack of transparency, puts him at high risk for another affair.

Do you have the book "Surviving An Affair"? You need it. You particularly need to read the story in it about Kevin and Lee.

Did you tell any of your friends or family about what he did?

He is going to have to become completely transparent with you. He is going to have to stop going out and drinking. If he is unwilling to do these things, there isn't any hope for your marriage recovering.

Have you read about Just Compensation and Extraordinary Precautions?

No, he is not an alcoholic. He drinks in social settings, but can go a long time without drinking. I do not drink at all so he very rarely drinks when it is just us together.

Yes, we did tell my friends and his parents and best friends about the incident 12 years ago. The ex girlfriend had been calling his parents house, as well. She was very persistent and it took a long time to get her to stop. The whole incident was very low class and distasteful.

Are Just Compensation and Extraordinary Precautions in the Love Busters book?

Here.
What is Just Compensation?

Also, Extraordinary Precautions-Revised from SAA

That's perfect, Brain - that is just the list I was thinking needed to be posted here.

These EPs are a good way for any marriage to live. Not just those that have had an affair. Dr. Harley and his wife live this way, and neither of them have ever had an affair.

One of the crucial items on that list is: "Spend leisure time together."

One of Dr. Harley's positions is that everybody needs an escape from the stress in their life. If you want to have a good marriage, you need to escape together. You need to limit yourselves to recreational activities that you both enjoy and become each other's favorite recreational companion. It's an important emotional need for most typical men, it's usually a good way to deposit love units for both men and women, and if your best times are being spent apart, you are going to grow apart. And if those times are happening with other people, you are at risk of falling in love with them / having an affair.

Sounds like your husband was previously willing to lie to you to go get his escape. So the question is going to be, is he willing to start escaping WITH you instead of away from you?

Because drinking was an issue in my marriage, it stood out to me as well. I hope that you find you are dealing with a situation more like markos is describing, that all it is is a need to escape together.