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My wife wants a divorce and I want to save my marriage... she is not willing to do anything to save the marriage.. we are separated and live in separate apt. this is the 3rd. marriage for both... She is Mexican with 3 children (14,16 & 18) I have two children (12 & 14) our children get along very well. We have only been married 10 months.. by marrying my wife ***edit*** I helped her get her temporary visa (2 years) once the two years is up and it helps a lot if we are still married then she can get her permanent visa... The reason for my wife wanting to separate is due to me and my angry outburst and she claims I have treated her badly in the last 5 months. (she is correct I have... not purposely ).. ***edit*** DW last month told me that we were separated and that the marriage is dead... but could we stay married until she got her permanent visa (1 1/2 from now) I truly believe that DW married me because she loved me and not the paper (visa).
I have for the last month been seeing a therapist once a week to help me with my angry outburst... and I also started taking Wellburten to help calm me down (it works) it give me those few extra seconds to think..
What I find very frustrating is my wife's refusal to tray and save the marriage... She said that she has already given me a few chances and she will not give me anymore (DW says 80% of me is this wonderful person but the 20% that yells and treats her meanly she can not be with) ... I don't disagree with the fact that she has given me 2 chances before to stop my outbursts... and each time I promised I would not do it again... well I did do it again... I have tried to explain to DW that this time things would be different because I'm really doing something to stop my outbursts , while before it was just me saying .. I'll stop..
My wife is obstinate lady... and if feel is will be very difficult for her to change her mind...
A little more back ground... She was physically & verbally abused by her father when she was you.. until the day she told him no more (18 years old) DW is 45 and I'm 53...
I love my wife very much and she deserves to be treated with love and respect by me... I completely understand and agree and I believe that her leaving me.. Was the wake-up call I needed to really want to change my behavior..
As I said we live in separate apt. due to our children go to different school districts ... we were going to look for a place to all live together but that is not in the plans now..
I have tried to speak with her and convince her to not give up on the marriage but all my efforts have just the opposite effect.. she has asked that we have time apart meaning very little contact no phone call, visits, txt.. the only exception is for her children and my children to see each other.. (drop off & pick-up)
I was not able to give her this one month break... I txted & called her... one day not sure what happened between her and I but most likely she continued to turn down all my suggestions to "JUST TRY" and fix our marriage.. if it doesn't work then OK ..I would also add that since we have two years that we need to say married it only makes sense just to try... She adamantly does not agree... So like a little child I got angry and Un-FaceBook her as my wife on my FB... (stupid and childish I know) as soon as I did it (30 min) I wanted to fix my stupid mistake and ask her to accept me as her husband on FB... she said no she would not do that... that was the consequence's for my actions... I tried several more times over the next few days to get her to change her mind... she would not and has not.... So what did I do next... (I was extremely hurt and sad because she wouldn't do this for me) that I got angry and mean, spiteful and txted her some not so nice messages.. (she is a very beautiful woman... and I said she was a perfect example of the saying beauty is on skin deep.. I also said that she was only using me for the papers and that I was going to file for divorce, you get the point.. I was a jerk to her well I was more than that!!) I also posted on her FB account under a photo of us that we were separated... (we had agreed not to make our troubles public... )
The next day I apologized to her for all stupid childish actions ..
I texted her and asked her if she loved me... she answered the following : I love you but I can not let you treat me the way you treat me. Im turning off my phone, please stop txting....
So you see I have a very difficult task in-front of me ... or maybe an impossible task ... of being able to save my marriage. Any ideas, suggestions, advise... help you can offer.. Do you think there is any chance to save it... she refuses to even think of such a thing... because I have treated her badly for the last 5 months and I continue to do the same... she told me today that even if I had treated her well these last months (separated) that she still would say the same thing that our marriage is dead with no chance of ever fixing it... she want me to be happy with me and my life and wants the best.. but she will not be a part of if.
So can you help me.... please tell me the truth.. what are my chances to recue my marriage.... I lover dearly.. I know I do some very stupid thing that would say I don't but that is not true I love her very much and respect her... and I don't want to lose her but I'm doing just that... help me get her back if that is possible.... what are my chances of that happening?
Last edited by IrishGreen; 02/22/1402:21 PM. Reason: Removing personal names
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
Welcome to Marriage builders. Glad you found yourself here and sorry for the troubles that you are facing. Please know this place is very slow on the weekends as most of the contributers are out with their spouses and families filling in their UA time (UA=undivided attention: see the policy of undivided attention in the emotional needs section of the navigation here).
You mention your seperated. That will make it difficult to meet your wifes emotional needs. You mention you have angry outbursts, well that is an issue you will NEED to sort out before your wife will feel safe. Angry outbursts do A LOT of damage to our love banks and should be avoided at all costs.
Check out this link and listen to the radio clips. I also bet your angry outbursts are anxiety related. A biofeedback device (talked about in the radio clips) may help you learn to control your anxiety and teach you to remain calm in the face of stress. It helped me a lot.
I'm not surprised that she has refused to go back to you. Anger alone can destroy a marriage more quickly and securely than anything else.
If you've been going to "therapy' for anger management and yet you were able to compose spiteful messages and actually press "send", then the anger management "therapy" is not working (duh). That was the proof your wife needed that you are good at talking and making promises, but you are not doing the concrete work that it takes to ensure that there is no more anger towards her - ever. if you couldn't keep hold of your temper while threatened with divorce and saying that you wanted her back and would do anything, what will your behaviour be like when you are living together with five teenagers in a blended family and with the normal stresses of life? That's what she thinks, and who could blame her?
What you can do is find a proper anger management class that focuses on re-training your behaviour so that angry outbursts disappear altogether. An anger management group will keep you accountable to other people for your behaviour - rather than giving you the privilege of sounding off about your wife in the privacy of the confidential therapy session.
When you say "What I find very frustrating is my wife's refusal to tray and save the marriage�" - that sounds a little bit angry and demanding to me, right there. Your wife has every right to leave you and refuse to try and save the marriage. Without any kids together, and with only 10 months married, 5 of them bad, she would do well to leave a bad situation very quickly, before you become more entangled.
You need stop the demands and the anger at her refusal to consider reuniting. You need to court your wife while separated and remove the pressure altogether for her to reunite with you. You need to show her that your behaviour has changed. You wooed her once and must do the same to woo her again, but of course, without any angry outburst about anything, ever again.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
SugarCane: Thank you for all your advice ... Its good to hear somebody else's view on the problem... I think you are absolutely right... I don't thing the therapist is the right place for me... anger management group may be mush better I have looked in my town for one but I have not been able to find one...
Thanks I listened to the raid program on anger ... good info.. I'll look into Bio-feedback device... not really sure what they do or how they work... I looked some up but not sure I understand how they help..do you need to carry this device with you all the time?
Dr Harley (owner of this website, who created the Marriage Builders programme; you should read all the articles he has written. They are free on this website. Learn how "love busters" such as angry outbursts destroy marriage) posted this on the private forum, available to people who sign up for the online course:
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Technically, the best biofeedback machine measures a combination of autonomic nervous system responses. But the least expensive way to approximate the results of that machine is to measure the GSR, which is one of the responses. There are some artifacts, like deep breathing, that you will need to ignore. But overall, it's a reasonably good measure of how relaxed you are. You should be able to control the meter by thinking of something that upsets you, then thinking of something that relaxes you.
Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.
You keep the machine with you all day and try to control its measurements by learning how to relax in stressful situations.
We can't change our instincts, but we can short-circuit their approach to a problem. If I have an instinct to have angry outbursts, it doesn't mean that I must go around losing my temper. I can create new habits that keep my anger in check. Habits that override inappropriate instincts are usually more difficult to create than habits that are not instinct driven, but it can be done. And in marriage, it must be done if you want to fall in love and stay in love.
Most effective anger management training programs focus attention on the creation of short-circuiting habits. Whenever a person begins to feel angry, he or she practices a behavior that has been shown to prevent an outburst. In the beginning, the new behavior is a conscious choice, something that is done regardless of how it feels to do it. Walking away from a frustrating situation is one example of a behavior that can short-circuit an angry outburst. Another is to follow a routine that relaxes your muscles and lowers adrenalin in your system. Eventually, with practice, the behavior that has proven effective in short-circuiting an angry outburst becomes a habit. Whenever the person begins to feel angry, the habit kicks in and angry outbursts are overcome.
My approach to anger management focuses attention on the same short-circuiting strategies that most other anger management programs stress. But I add something that most other plans neglect. I try to help my client overcome all abusive behavior, beginning with selfish demands, because that's where abuse usually begins. From there, I teach a client to stop making disrespectful judgments, and then he or she is finally in a better position to getangry outbursts under control. The underlying theme of this approach to anger management is to make my client aware of the fact that he or she has no right trying to control anyone else, regardless of what that person is doing. From there we go on to create habits that take the place of demands, disrespect and anger, so that my client can get what he or she needs from their spouse without being controlling.
Remember, in marriage you can be your spouse's greatest source of pleasure, but you can also be your spouse's greatest source of pain, particularly if you use the controlling and abusive strategies of demands, disrespect and anger to try to get what you need in marriage. If you use them, you are almost sure to lose your spouse's love for you.
In this article is where Dr. Harley talks about the biofeedback.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
While most of us know if we're tense or relaxed, some people find it helpful to use some form of biofeedback to help them quantify their efforts. A simple galvanic response meter can do the trick and they can be purchased on Amazon for between $50 and $100. A CD often accompanies the meter that teaches relaxation techniques. The GSR2 Biofeedback Relaxation System with CD by Bio-Medical Instruments, Inc. is about $75.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
Also the anger management 101 that Mr.NiceGuy posted? Listen to the clips?
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
Thanks I listened to the raid program on anger ... good info.. I'll look into Bio-feedback device... not really sure what they do or how they work... I looked some up but not sure I understand how they help..do you need to carry this device with you all the time?
Here is a link to a youtube video on how the biofeedback device gsr2 works. It measures galvanic skin response which is the first response to stress and represents your anxiety. This video shows its function with an add on plugged into it. Without it the machine makes a high pitched noise and you control it by relaxing your mind and body and then keep pushing up the sensitivity dial to learn to deepen your relaxation.
Link to gsr2 biofeed back device -
Example when I got mine (everyone uses it from time to time to check and or practice anxiety control) I would be sitting with it relaxing and focusing on the sound to drop the pitch and my wife or kids could say the word "christmas" for example and the machine would show my response to it by sending the pitch noise higher.
Great tool and once your learn to recognize the signals in your body you it gets easier to control and you use it less and less.
How do I remove all the pressure when as you say I'm trying to woo her back? She knows that I want to repair our marriage and want her back... wont that alone be pressure on her... and can I recover my marriage after what I did.. is that possible., anything is possible but is there a good chance that I can is really my question. I know that you should never get children involved in marriage problems, but in our case they know what is happening and why She asked for the separation... her children know because I told them in front of her what I had done and told them how sorry I was for it and that I'm taking steps to change and that I want our family back together... her children would like to see us back together they have told me that... The middle son told me that there was 0 chance of Her & I getting back together I asked him why and he said because she made her decision .. meaning that once she makes a decision she will not change her mind.... That scares me and has me feeling extremely anxious.. like a cat on a hot tin roof.. I feel time is my enemy that the more time I let go by the less chance I have of saving my marriage... My children also know exactly what has happened and understand that this was my fault but they are also disanointed in her for not wanting to try... my boy (14 years old) said to me yesterday how can she just leave us.. just like that.. I didn't know what to say because I think the same... He then told me that he is going to talk to her sons and ask them what they all can do to get her to give this marriage another try.. I told him that he should not do that.. but he told me that he is going to do it because it is important to him.. truthfully I think that if the boys (hers and mine) talk to her and tell her that they would like to see us together and that she should take a risk on me because they are willing themselves to take a risk on me.... that she will listen to them and that is the best chance to save our marriage. I don't know how I feel about them don't this... she may think that I put the kids up to this... she may agree to give us a chance but carry resentment that she was pressured to do this and that resentment will come out at some point and kill the marriage or it could work and she & I could have a great marriage.... ( we are assuming that I have been able to get my anger under control and have learned how to always treat her well) What are your thoughts ? any suggestions?
Do you need two people to save a marriage (like mine).. were it is so easy to step away.. because we have no common children and really never lived together... Someday (more than less )my situation seems hopeless, I feel hopeless, I feel defeated, I feel that there is nothing I could do will stop her from divorcing me... That thought or maybe reality make me so sad, I really don't what to lose this wonderful women... I don't want to let go because I believe we really can have a great marriage if given the chance... Her leaving me has made me look at myself and want to change.. I'm a much better person than what I have shown in the last 5 months.. I hate that person I have been with her at times.. (hate, hate, hate) Also her putting the line in the sand ... I don't know if I can explain what that did to me.. it forced me to know, understand for the first time actually "see" that there is a line that you can't cross with people.. but my wife...that is just not acceptable.. I was forced to see that line but I know now that I would not cross it... I have experienced the pain and consequences of crossing that line... and like to train a dog not to pee in the house .. I learned not to cross that line... It all seems to late ... and then my brain kicks in and says it is never to late and smart people do change their mind and she is absolutely a smart person, so she if given evidence should be able and willing to change her mind... but then I think "willing" to change her mind... I'm scared that she will not allow herself to change her mind.. she has told me many time that she will never put herself in a situation like that again.. and that no matter how much progress I make... someday a year from now, 3 years from now.. I will lose my temper and she doesn't want to be there for that... I don't agree with that thinking because if you can go six months or a year with out losing your temper then you have learned a new behavior and how to handle anger in a better way...
I have a question.. I'm reading on other post something I thought of before and that is because my wife and I have no common children that it is easier to separate/divorce.. that is just the reality of matter.. My questions is should I mention this fact to my wife (she is the one that separated from me) that in someway that it is not fair to me or the relationship to be less worry of effort because we don't have children in common... I mean should the love for each other be a reason two fight to save the marriage.. We do have children just not children in common.. I feel cheated because we don't have children in common.. that our marriage is worth less that the love we have is less.. not in my eyes not in her eyes... that the reason to save the marriage is just not a strong... well that is not right... its two people that love each other and that should be what is worth fighting for... also what are we teaching our children if we don't fight... that its ok to just walk out on a relationship at the first sign of trouble... that some marriage are more important than other... just quite .. If I mention this fact that because we don't have children it is easier to separate..do you think it will carry any weight and make her think again...
Brain hurts, not sure what you are offering... are you telling me that there is to much pain to even try to save the marriage.. that it is not worth it to try... ? I don't understand why you would say something like that.. no advise just give up... yes the is pain and hurt but that doesn't mean we have to give-up..... or does it?
My children also know exactly what has happened and understand that this was my fault but they are also disanointed in her for not wanting to try... my boy (14 years old) said to me yesterday how can she just leave us.. just like that.. I didn't know what to say because I think the same...
You see, this attitude - the underlined - is a huge problem. It is disrespectful of you to hold this attitude towards your wife and it will do nothing to attract her back to you.
In a post yesterday, you said much the same thing; that you were angry that she could "just give up on you like that" or similar words.
It seems to me when you say things like this (or agree silently with your son that that it is incredible that she can leave you "just like that" - agree that it is wrong, in other words, for her to leave you 'just like that") that you haven't begun to accept that you drove you wife away with your anger and that she has left you because you made her stop loving you. You have not begun to accept that it is entirely her right to walk away from a disrespectful, angry, verbally abusive husband and to stay far away from you for good. She is protecting herself from any possibility of further abuse, and everyone posting to you on this website would say that she is right to do so.
As I said yesterday, not only did you take time to compose and send what sounds like an angry message to her on FB, you composed and sent several of them! You did not control yourself and think about how that would affect her, and how it would affect your chances of recovery when she was already finished with you.
Sending abusive messages to your wife is scumbag behaviour of the highest order and I see exactly why she would not give you a second glance.
So, if your kids and hers decide to talk to her about recovery, the one thing they, and you, must not do is convey any sort of message that implies that she is wrong not to give you another chance, or that she is unreasonable to give up "just like that". It was not "just like that" to her; this was a new husband who only weeks before was madly in love with her, but who just after the wedding began his campaign of angry outbursts and disrespectful, hurtful, cutting language.
If you let any of the children, or you, convey the message, however subliminally, that she is being unreasonable, that will be the last you ever hear of her, and that's as it should be.
You need to court her and woo her and show her changed behaviour over time. There has not been time for you to show a change since yesterday when you first posted. If you or the kids go to her with pressure to reunite now, because "you have changed" when you really haven't - not yet - you will damage things even further.
Your wife is not the one who should be under pressure; you are. As yet, you don't have a bio-feedback device and you haven't been in an anger management group for at least six months.
You need to learn about Disrespectful Judgements - one of the "love busters" that Dr H identifies here, and work on eliminating these entirely from your thoughts about your wife. She isn't doing anything wrong. You did the wrong and you need to put it right.
I have a question.. I'm reading on other post something I thought of before and that is because my wife and I have no common children that it is easier to separate/divorce.. that is just the reality of matter.. My questions is should I mention this fact to my wife (she is the one that separated from me) that in someway that it is not fair to me or the relationship to be less worry of effort because we don't have children in common... I mean should the love for each other be a reason two fight to save the marriage.. We do have children just not children in common.. I feel cheated because we don't have children in common.. that our marriage is worth less that the love we have is less.. not in my eyes not in her eyes... that the reason to save the marriage is just not a strong... well that is not right... its two people that love each other and that should be what is worth fighting for... also what are we teaching our children if we don't fight... that its ok to just walk out on a relationship at the first sign of trouble... that some marriage are more important than other... just quite .. If I mention this fact that because we don't have children it is easier to separate..do you think it will carry any weight and make her think again...
This whole post is one long disrespectful judgement of her for wanting to leave you. Do not say a word of this to her.
In fact, it isn't she who said anything about not having children in common; it is we on this forum who said that without the strong motivation of shared children, there is very little incentive for a newlywed to work on a marriage that has broken down. We said that, not she, so don't you say anything to her that assumes her motives or thoughts.
But if she had said anything to you about not having kids with you, you would be disrespecting her to tell her she is wrong to think like that. You would be disrespecting her BIG TIME to tell her that she owes you and the kids the sacrifice of putting herself in the lion's den with your anger and abuse, ever again, for your and their sakes.
We told you about this only to show you that mammoth task you face of attracting her back. She does not have the ties to you, after six months of marriage - a third marriage no less - and no kids, that a long-term first marriage with kids places on spouses.
While we're on the subject of third marriages, can you tell us how yours and her first two marriages ended?
Brain hurts, not sure what you are offering... are you telling me that there is to much pain to even try to save the marriage.. that it is not worth it to try... ? I don't understand why you would say something like that.. no advise just give up... yes the is pain and hurt but that doesn't mean we have to give-up..... or does it?
I can't see anything that BrainHurts wrote that makes you ask this. A far as I can see, she posted links about anger and the bio-feedback device. What did she say that makes you ask this?
