I cannot get the thoughts of my wife's affair out of my mind for all these years. I still have no closure on all the issues and details of it and other issues in our marriage. We ares till married, children grown. No one knows of it except therapists we have seen. Seeing one currently but it is turning as unsuccessful as the rest. Wife does not want to communicate or it seems really reconcile. Details over the years change, more information that is just hurtful. She seems to have a hate for me but claims she does not but her actions say otherwise.

So sorry you still carry this pain and doubts about your W's betrayal.

You have not ever exposed, except for the unqualified therapists who have been unable to give you a plant to reintegrate your marriage.

How long ago was the affair?

Do you know who the OM was?

Have they Ever had the opportunity to contact each other since D-Day?

Have you read the, "Just found out, Start here first thread"?

You should order the book, Surviving An Affair available on this sites bookstore or via Amazon.com

You will need to finally put your mind at ease first and the build a new romantic integrated marriage.

The plan for that comes after dealing with the affair though. That most likely should include having your W take a polygraph test to reveal the unknown truths.

Then there will be more, such as implementing EP's, Extraordinary Precautions. Then more will follow.

LTL

Will your W come here to post?

If both, of you follow the plan here together by following the advice of the veteran posters, then a true reconciliation can take place.

There is also individual and couples coaching by the staff working directly under Dr. Harley, plus an online program to utilize.

LTL

I can relate, only I am on the other side. 10 years ago this month had a physical affair with my "soulmate" whom I had actually met some some years prior, but fought my feelings for her because I was married with 2 kids.. soon to be 3. Thing is, I really loved her, in that my feelings for her where overwhelming me constantly even if I didn't see her for months. We did not actually "consummate" our "illicit" relationship, just a lot of kissing and snuggling and holding hands.

I remember it was very confusing time...I would sit a work for hours wondering what to do... then I stumbled onto MB website, and so many of the pieces fit, including the fact that my spouse was NOT meeting my needs for years prior.... anyway I broke my lover's heart when I told her I was going to stay with my wife and kids based on what I learned from MB. We moved to a different state afterwards, and my spouse and I tried to rekindle things, as I had confessed everything. She worked at meeting my needs somewhat, but really she resented it I think. The basic 2 guy needs: keep yourself physically attractive, dress for the occasion. And have good sex.

Well here we are 10 years later and my needs remain unfulfilled, or erratic at best. There is a lot of negative energy in our house most of the time. In my heart I KNOW I made the wrong choice, because you can't MAKE somebody want to meet your needs, they have to want to all by themselves automatically because they cherish and love you deeply. My wife RESENTS me (for the affair) which prevents her from meeting my needs...which drives me away... which further her resentment.. its a vicious circle.

Oh well. I am just offering this to you Cobaltblue as advice: what I am feeling is what your wife is feeling. She probably thinks that she made the wrong choice too by staying with you. If you want to get her past it, YOU have to choose to meet her needs and make her fall in love YOU with again. Are you up for it? If you really are not, then throw in the towel. How bad do you want to save the marriage? It's kinda up to you. Sadly, that is how it works, yes it is a somewhat backward theory (YOU must meet HER needs even though she had the affair!?), but I suspect if nothing changes soon, you will both be miserable for the rest of your days... like us!

Good luck.

In both of your cases, you did not follow Dr. Harley's plan for Surviving an Affair.
You can follow his plan, in the book Surviving an Affair.
He makes it very clear that you cannot deviate from the plan.

That is what I encourage you to read with your wife.

No, I did everything I was supposed to as wayward spouse. Everything, I even moved us to another state, which is not trivial.

My wife on the other hand, you are correct, does not reliably meet my needs, she has 1000 excuses, but really deep down, it is the resentment that is killing our marriage.

So be careful in terms telling me I did not follow the Harley plan. I did, and I do, but there is no love in our marriage.

Its really tragic when people don't use this program to save their marriages. All of the tools are right here at your disposal; every single thing you need to create a romantic marriage and have a complete recovery frm the affair. Cobalt and Piper, it is obvious that your recoveries are not complete, which is why you are both still thinking of the affairs. That is so unnecessary. When the present is happy, the mind does not go to the tragedies of the past.

Many of us were able to use this program on our own to create a romantic marriage, but when do it yourself does not work, the professional services of the Harleys is available. That is what many of us have used here and we are in full and complete recoveries.

So, my suggestion to you both would be to use Marriage Builders. This program really does work if you use it.


This made me want to puke because it is so silly. ["soulmate" ]If you are still in love with this skank, that means you are in the fog. If you are in the fog, it is usually because contact is still ongoing. Are you still in touch with her? Do you live close by? Gawp at her facebook page? Pictures?


The wrong choice was in not using this program to recover your marriage. The worst choice would be to leave for your affair with this OW, because it was doomed. 95% of affairs crumble within 2 years, because the traits that made them possible: deceit, thoughtlessness and selfishness eventually make their way into to the affair. Dr Harley has been specializing in infidelity for 40 years and does not know of a SINGLE "affairage" where the adulterer does not regret his choice. The relationships are usually a disaster.

So please take another approach, guys, and stop blaming your spouses. The reason your marriages are so bad is because you never used this program to recover.

I see no indication you followed this program. Your wife is not in love with you, so that tells me you don't understand how to meet her needs and probably never followed the POUA or the POJA. The program does work when follow it.

When a woman is in love, she gladly feels like meeting the needs of her husband. She will fall in love with you if you become an expert at meeting her needs. And if recovery does not take place after an affair, resentment ensues on the part of the victim. I would imagine her resentment is deep.

But it doesn't have to be like that.

Piper,

Why don't you start your own topic thread.

I have a feeling that you actually "Think" that you did everything, but so often, we ourselves cannot see the forest for the trees.

#1 question that you can begin with is; Was your affair exposed to all friends, family, clergy, and other key prominent people in your lives, By Your WIFE?

I look forward to you starting your own discussion so we no longer thread-jack this particular OP's concerns.

LTL

He went through the Marriage Builders course some years ago, but it is apparent they didn't follow the lessons and implement any of the concepts. The program doesn't work if you don't work it!

What year did you go to the seminar, piper? My H and I went in 2007 and had outstanding results. BUT.....we actually implemented the rules of the program.

[Quote] We did not actually "consummate" our "illicit" relationship, just a lot of kissing and snuggling and holding hands.]/Quote]

Piper,

This statement right here points out how much you do not seem to get it and are still looking Foggy.

I bet you that your W sure feels like you consummated that relationship.

You gave time and emotional energy and physical groping to someone other than your W, yet 10 years later still minimize the impact of your actions.

LTL

Something has kept him foggy all these years. I wonder what it is? Something is keeping his feelings for this hoe triggered.

Cobaltblue,

Have you spoken to the OM? He is the other person in this world who knows the truth. My Ws affair with OM2 was 20+ years ago and speaking with OM2 is one of the routes I will try in the near future.

God Bless
Gamma

You and your wife have to both work the MB plan. You think you have made just compensation. Well your wife got stuck somewhere. And you have left her there.

cobaltblue, come back do not do a one post drive by.

Cobalt,

Have you had the chance to digest the posts made on your behalf yet.

You will get more help by posting on a regular basis, at least at several time points per day.

LTL

I have read and appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions:
When I say too many years, yes been 20 years. The OM, yes I do not know him personally but he was a co worker with my wife. I know a bit too much about him I feel at times. As far as the Marriage Builder Site I have read a lot on the site. I have shown the site to my wife and she says she is interested but she has only breifly looked at it a couple of times on her own. If I call it up to look at it together she gets very defensive and finds a way to get out of it, crying or being upset which she knows shuts down any conversation.
There was never any direct contact with the OM. I had told my wife if she wanted to work things out that she would have to stop all contact. I wanted one of them to quit and she told me she told him everything I requested. I felt he should move on as his wife was not being told and he had kids. IWe had 2 kids also. In hind sight she should have quit but did not. She lied to me about telling him but I did not find out until much later. She claims to have broke it off , the relationship in miost all aspects but I do not believe her based on he statement and actions, not just my insercurity. There is so much to tell of all this. It is ver whelming. The stories have changed over the years so I really do not know what is the truth. There are so many rude details that I am not sure should b eposted but I think they speak to her state of mind then and now. I feel she is truely sorry but she simply will not make any effort to actaully reconcile

And yes a post can be highjacked but the post and responses by Piper has useful insight. The therapy has not done much for me or my wife except to understand some of the verabl and phyiscal abuse she was exposed to as a child with an alcholic father and a rage-a-cholic mother. My wife got pregant in high school, was married for a year or so then divorced. I met her about three years after she divorced. I had not been married prior or had any children, just a very few closed relationships. I found out later, years later she was the one having affairs on her first husband and has told 4 different stories about it from "I never" to "once" to "three" to "two". It is currently two during her first marriage, hard to tell what it may really be. She tells so many different versions of anything she speaks of it is difficult to biuld any trust and when there is some she seems to find a way to destroy it.

Sir the therapy you mention, such as examining your wifes childhood , does not help recovery.
Dr. Harley has found such therapy to be a waste of time and counter productive.
Instead he focuses on (1) eliminating all contact between the affair partners (2) creating a lifestyle which makes affairs impossible to have and (3) creating romantic love by meeting emotional needs.

His program is successful but it must be followed by both spouses.