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Don't listen to Piper, he is on here trying to justify his failed attempt at Recovery and doesn't even appear to have followed MB program. Everything you spoke of OP means you did not use the necessaary steps outlined in the MB program.

1. Exposing holds your WW accountable for her actions and doesn't require you to bear the burden of her infidelity alone. You will gain support from true friends and people have have your true best interest in mind.

2. You need to get a polygraph to get all the truth you need to be able to move on and not bring the A up ever again. Don't hold back and get every question you need answered under polygraph so you don't sit and wonder and dwell obsess on the details of the A.

3. Once you and your wife follow the program you can reciev just compensation and you will be able to move on and you both will be happy because your EN's are being met. You currently have resentment built up because you don't feel like you've received jsut compensation for the A. Just compensation should not be punishment for you wife but it should be retribution by your wife for the hurt and pain she has caused you.

After 20 plus years yes there are thing that did not happen as stated in the Marriage Builder plan, I did not know of it. So after all this time is exposure an advisable option?
Detail of the affair have been dripped on me year after year like battery acid, always changing. There are questions I have that I would like to have answered under a polygraph but the why of it all I wonder if that could ever be answered that way.
The #3 statement is true I think, There is so much I am over whelmed by it all.

Well the MB program addresses the resentment and allows you compensation so you can move on.

The secret of the A is a huge, unfair burden you should have to carry alone. Your W should carry it (with support from you) because it was her choices that put you in this situation. As long as your W if meeting your EN's and providing you Just Compensation then it is your responsibility to support your W as she carries the burden of the A.

This program teaches you how to do this.

Getting my wife to follow MB may be a long shot. Therapy fails as she does not want to really do it. Contact with her lover does not happen to the best of my knowledge. She was so deceptive in hiding it before she could be doing anything at anytime and I would not. Oddly that is not the big issue for me anymore and much as it once was. It is the lack of trust, the lying, not know who she really is. It is like she killed my wife and took her spot as a look alike. It is like she is a stranger after all these years. Like I was attacked by a dog that still lives in my house and a fear another attack at anytime.

CobaltBlue, I can relate to those feelings. It's painful. So far, I've received little in the way of just compensation and WH still seems to be in the fog of his porn, lust mindsets often. BUT, I am hopeful that if we follow Dr. H's program, that we will both learn how to stop withdrawals and meet each other's EN such that we build a wonderful, healthy marriage that is satisfying for us both... but, I think much hinges on whether a wayward will follow the program.

We know therapy fails and are not recommending that. We are recommending a step by step plan to recover your marriage.


Do you spy on her?


WE understand. The necessary steps to restore trust have never been taken.

This exactly! The MB program builds trust by requiring transparency. You should know what your W is doing at all times and should not have trust issues. You should never trust your W 100%, you should instead have transparency so trust is never an issue.

I feel I do not spy on her as such but I am keenly aware of what she says and does and where. Almost too much. It is like a war zone and I see someone with a gun behind every tree and rock. having almost lost hope I feel I want to try the MB program. I see her actions all along as not just failing to meet some EN but more as a sick addict craving some hateful action while professing love for me. I will ask this and hope it is not too graphic for the post. I have multiple concerns. I found out about this from contracting what I feel was a STD as I that was what the doctor said. Some what like a fungal infection that he said most times was contracted through sexual contact. At first it was not true, then she "messed around" a bit with someone, then she had intercourse once, then it was twice. Time and time again it changed so many time I cannot recall up to 200 times in a two 26 month period. All her math. All the time claiming it was unsatisfying. After discovery she was supposed to tell the OM that it was over, that I knew, that I expected one on them to quit work as that was where most of it was. I did not expose for several reasons. All this time she denied me any attention emotion or sexual***EDIT*** all this without me having any idea. She has fought me on all issues and has been caught in so many lies, it is just terrible. All this talk of meeting her EN sort of seems ridiculous when I think of her real EN. She had no lack of attention, love, or good sex ***EDIT***. She agrees with that. She still claimed he was "not a good lover but long after the affair was known she would fantasize about the OM to the point she called me his name twice during sex and once while arguing. I have been there through think and thin, I adopted her daughter, and one ourselves, almost being a single parent to them. Resentment Hell yeah I have plenty. She has stayed in a position of being looked at as a good wife to the friends and family so yeah I have enabled all this to a great degree. I should have kicked her out years ago. I really do not regret what I have done for my kids but how much better of a life would we all have had if this did not happen and yes if the kids knew anyway. They grew up in a damaged world with two damaged parents. I realize now I should have made it where they grew up with at least one healthy parent. At some point the meeting the unmet EN for me is bull when the needs are sick. This treat your wife as your competing to always hold her attention or gain love seems to be a sick love. When people are committed and marry the competition with any jack wagon out there ***EDIT*** to keep them in "love" rings hallow for me.

Well I apologize for for the last post as it was heavily edited as to content. The point is about the comments concerning therapy. I agree it does not work well, or it has not for us. There are deep issues concerning abuse and alcohol in my wife family that they all feel is a root cause of her behavior. The emotional needs she seems to have that were lacking are not the run of the mill needs or correctly identified. They tend to be very selfish and sexually deviant not just the normal sexual emotional needs, lonely, feeling wanted, or abandoned.

Is there a list of all the acronyms used on the site? I have read through a lot here. Another question is on the exposure issue. It has been so long I have doubts that it would not just be revenge from long resentment. The only good lasting thing i have from all this was I did protect my daughters from it all or at least my youngest. The older daughter passed away, she knew some of it from over hearing. Sadly she went to her grave not knowing that she was not to blame for any of it. She thought she was as she was adopted from my wife's first marriage.

I will do the Marriage Builder program but I really feel it will just be me taking it seriously. I am sorry for the edited post. I will have to woodsmith future posts. I type as I think but my intent was to indicate there is a bit more to it all than just to say therapy will not work at all. Proof is in the pudding on that though as stated it has not worked for us so far. My wife I truly feel sorry for and I suppose it has made me an enabler. I guess divorce may be the only way I can regain some of my dignity. It all smells of failure.

Is your wife still in contact with the affair partner?

How old are your kids?

As best as I can tell my wife is not currently in contact with the OM. That being said for years I think she was based on things I asked her to do that were not done, her behavior, and things she said. Also she did make contact through email with my knowledge in some half baked attempt for truth and exposure. There was mention of setting up another email account from the OM and then all the emails disappeared. She denied deleting them for a long time and has never admitted deleting them but she said she did not want me to see some of them for some unexplained reason then came up with the excuse that I had been correct that other people had known about the affair as he told her so. She always contended no one ever knew anything. Turns out he could not help to brag about it to another co worker.

Two daughters. The oldest I adopted as her first husband never interacted much and disappeared to another state and made little to no contact or support. The oldest passed away when she was 16, The youngest is now 30 with one daughter and another on the way.

This is what I suggest you do:

Tell your wife you would like to have a romantic marriage where both of your needs are met; and that you found a plan in Surviving an Affair for doing this.

Ask her to join you in this program of marital recovery.

If she refuses, you may want to "Plan A" for 6 months, then divorce her.

The challenge is that she enjoys her secret second life and she may not want to give it up.

While going through the ENQ I filled it out with where I felt I (or we) were now. It then occurred to me that it has changed over the years. My wife always discouraged shows of affection especially in public. She would privately make fun of my brother and his wife for the goodbye kisses, hugs, etc with comments and "gee get a room" sayings. Nw she says she was addicted toi the attention and affection which she discouraged. So my EN where different then and now I am not so sure I really want the same things. Not sure if I have gotten my though across here.

See: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2777791&page=1

I am reading the Plan A B concept again and again. If Plan A is to stop the affair or contact, that has pretty much happened. She just will not commit to trying to work towards real reconciliation I feel. The rules for caring etc can apply to anyone at anytime. Her Plan is to not discuss an issue between us, no sharing, no focus on us. She just wants to forget it all like it never happened and she has nto really changed that much so I have no real trust. I can only trust in we are getting old

Thanks you very much, I did not see "EP" needed

In my signature?

EP�s = extraordinary precautions, which I need from my WH - see this thread about extraordinary precautions to help you get started: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2374198

I was initially under the mistaken impression that I am supposed to make up this list, but recently someone clarified on my thread that he is the one to write these up in offering just compensation to me.

Since you are recovering from an affair, I would follow the steps in Surviving an Affair.
Removing the conditions which made the affair possible and creating an integrated lifestyle should be the first step.

Also, she should answer any questions about the affair at a set time and place and then the affair should never be brought up again.

Plan A can also be used to get a reluctant spouse on board, the goal is to meet her emotional needs and hopefully she will fall in love with you and agree to follow the program of recovery.
After 6 months, if she refuses, you can separate and then enter Plan B...