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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
So, do I stand by my provision, or is it none of my concern?

I just feel my kids will hate me if anything is alleged (whether it did happen or not) and the kids find out I knew of this old propensity and turned a blind eye.

You should tell your kids everything you know! Don't keep it a secret from them.


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I was concerned about the grounds for whether I was "stuck" or not for my own self (biblical concerns), but took EVERY measure to make sure this would never be repeated, such as him not giving babysitters rides home, no girls in our home if I'm not there, etc.

Like I said, I could have used some better advice at the time as to whether I needed to stay.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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I have no idea why you characterize this as not adultery. This is the kind of thing that in Biblical times prostitutes in Corinth would do with men. They'd have sexual behavior but not intercourse to avoid pregnancy. The Bible still completely condemns it, using the word "porneia." From that word we get the word "pornography" and our word "fornication."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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I just feel my kids will hate me if anything is alleged (whether it did happen or not) and the kids find out I knew of this old propensity and turned a blind eye.
And they would have every right to. If you haven't told them about this, you should.


Markos' Wife
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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
So, do I stand by my provision, or is it none of my concern?

I just feel my kids will hate me if anything is alleged (whether it did happen or not) and the kids find out I knew of this old propensity and turned a blind eye.

I would pursue full custody with supervised visitation for him until he is examined by a psychologist.
Appoint a GAL for the children.
Call the grown girl as a witness for the court.
I think Dr. Harley would recommend the same; you can email him for advice but you need to TELL HIM THE WHOLE STORY AND NOT BE VAGUE

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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I was concerned about the grounds for whether I was "stuck" or not for my own self (biblical concerns), but took EVERY measure to make sure this would never be repeated, such as him not giving babysitters rides home, no girls in our home if I'm not there, etc.

Like I said, I could have used some better advice at the time as to whether I needed to stay.

Rather than worrying about the past, I suggest that right now in the present you get your own lawyer, take control of this situation, and get him out so that you are in control and not waiting on his timetable.

Get separated from him to protect yourself.

You can worry about whether or not you are allowed to remarry LATER, after you are safe and protected from your abusive and unfaithful husband.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Unfortunately, if he won't agree to the teen girl overnight stipulation, then you would have to rely on a judge to order such a thing. However, since no charges were filed, it was a decade ago, and you have possibly allowed sleepovers since (??), you will have a extremely difficult time getting a judge to order such a thing. I would not be holding up a divorce over this. You have good intentions but very little legal backing.


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exWH - serial cheater
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Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
He should be been pursued and required to register as a sex offender, but due in part to your enabling he is free to repeat.

Well, if it were a few days prior it would have been criminal per our criminal code, clear as day.

Since she was 16, there was a gray area. I left that up to the judicial system to work out (with atty representation), but felt I carried a moral responsibility to watch against this from then on.

I really didn't give a rip about how he felt. I just didn't want the kids to be under that cloud.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Here is what the Bible says about divorce, adultery, and remarriage:

http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-9.htm

"anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery"

Isn't that crystal clear? Isn't what your husband did sexual immorality? And of one of the worst kinds, too, as he basically molested a girl.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I just didn't want the kids to be under that cloud.

Sunny, your children need to know that their father is a CHILD MOLESTER.

Doesn't the Bible stand for truth and honesty?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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She probably doesnt even know exactly what happened; that's the problem.
They could of had sex for all you know.
Was there a polygraph or medical examination?

What about all the other teenage girls he has been around?

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This girl was basically raped by a 40 year old man, and you don't see that as adultary? Why?


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Originally Posted by black_raven
Unfortunately, if he won't agree to the teen girl overnight stipulation, then you would have to rely on a judge to order such a thing. However, since no charges were filed, it was a decade ago, and you have possibly allowed sleepovers since (??), you will have a extremely difficult time getting a judge to order such a thing. I would not be holding up a divorce over this. You have good intentions but very little legal backing.

Get the divorce ASAP, and if necessary you can try to have him legally restricted later. In the meantime, tell the truth to EVERYBODY. Tell your children, your church, and his family what he did. They need to know what kind of man this is that you are leaving. And YOU need their support! You should not be bearing this burden alone.

It will not be long until your children are grown and don't have to see him anyway - teenage girl sleepovers are not going to be an issue forever.

We have been urging you to separate from your husband for nearly a year. In that time we have seen dozens of people accomplish separations and even divorces on this site. YOU need a separation desperately. Quit dragging your feet and waiting on him. He is jerking your chain.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
but felt I carried a moral responsibility to watch against this from then on.

No, you carried a moral responsibility to TELL PEOPLE. So did he. You did not carry a moral responsibility to stay with him and keep his sin a secret. It is not your responsibility to make him do right - nobody can do that.

Even God doesn't MAKE him do right - how could you?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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I would get the divorce ASAP. Then tell your kiddos that their dad acted like a perv so they know not to bring their gfs to his house. I would not get hung up on the overnight provision. Exposure can do that. Of your younger three, how many are girls?


BW - me
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Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Ok, let's get back to the original question, which is on sleepovers.

The overwhelming answer is to either expose or get custody/supervised visitation.

He has agreed to give me full custody which I laid out as a non-negotiable position early on. The reason I did that was so I could maintain legal control of visitation, up to and including removing the children (moving out of state, or whatever) if I judged it to be a problem. I'll have to confirm with an attorney how much control full custody gives me.

I am reading and re-reading everything. I will think about the other issues raised some more.

To confirm, this incident in 2000 hit him like a load of bricks. He was hugely and deeply remorseful - to the point he developed an autoimmune disease from the stress while being so remorseful of what he had done. He has been careful to avoid being alone with teenage girls since. I just feel I still have a moral responsibility over it until my children are 18 since I told him to get the attorney instead of going to the police station.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
Ok, let's get back to the original question, which is on sleepovers.

The overwhelming answer is to either expose or get custody/supervised visitation.

I think you need to get away from this distraction and get your separation ASAP. You shouldn't worry about what he does when separated from you - you should shield yourself from even knowing. In the meantime, tell your children ASAP.

And DO NOT discuss it with him - just go tell them. If you talk to him first he will try to spin and minimize it to them. Just go expose.

Have you ever read any other threads on this forum to know how this stuff is supposed to work?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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You dont know why he developed a disease.
He could have developed it because he was worried about going to jail, and facing consequences....instead of true remorse.

You seem to be very gaslighted in your excuses for him.

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Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
To confirm, this incident in 2000 hit him like a load of bricks.

I don't care what it did to HIM. I care what it did to YOU.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Prisca
This girl was basically raped by a 40 year old man, and you don't see that as adultary? Why?

For the purposes of church discipline, they have a distinction between an adulterous act and adultery. This is how I was raised and I had no thoughts to even question it.

Markos' interpretation of it being any sexual immorality is interesting. If I could have received advice like that at the time I would have divorced him in a NY minute. I didn't even ask my church for advice because I already assumed I knew it wasn't "adultery" for the purposes of being acceptable for divorce.

The past is the past. I can't change what my dumb perception was at the time. I'm confident if I had told a pastor about the specifics of this he would have set me straight.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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