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Jedi_Knight #2785819 02/27/14 12:21 AM
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I have 3 young children close to your daughters age and 2 years after divorce, I continue to fight legally to ensure they are not exposed to addicts or alcoholism.
KNock on wood...to date I have been successful/

I have constant court hearings but this is a serious matter.

Harley often references a study where a vast majority of alcoholic fathers admitted to sexually mollesting their daughters while intoxicated.

I think Harley would encourage you to contact your attorney asap

Jedi_Knight #2785823 02/27/14 12:40 AM
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Jedi as someone who was molested by an alcoholic stepparent I can tell you my kids are not being molested. My radar is super sharp on that. And I made sure to prevent them being around B's friends when they were drinking because I know how molesters look for kids who aren't being supervised.

I think that's great that you have been able to get full custody of your kids. We had an amicable divorce and I felt comfortable for while he wasn't drinking while the kids were there, until that changed. Then it seemed to calm down again, and then that changed again. But don't worry I'll follow up.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2785824 02/27/14 12:53 AM
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You cant battle the alcohol; it will win

Jedi_Knight #2785825 02/27/14 12:54 AM
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When will you follow up?
Will you contact an attorney tomorrow and tell them that your child insider the care of someone intoxicated? Will you ask them to file for emergency custody?

Jedi_Knight #2785866 02/27/14 09:16 AM
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Don't worry, Jedi, I've given up the battle long ago. I'm going to talk with OD's IC at her session today.

I can put in a call to my attorney today, to clarify what YD's rights are. I would not file for emergency custody, like I said these kids aren't in danger or I would have already taken action. The situation has been like this on and off her whole life, so it is not a sudden crisis. I don't like the situation but I have taken the steps I thought reasonable to mitigate it, like FC and Alateen after the divorce to help the kids adjust and help them learn to make good choices for themselves.



Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2785876 02/27/14 09:45 AM
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NED, this is what Dr. Harley recommended to me in a case with my alcoholic MIL:

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Copy of email sent to Dr Harley.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I have a question.�
For a third of my marriage, my alcoholic mother-in-law lived with us.�
After divorce in July 2012 I allowed my children to continue visiting her for 2 hours a week at a local fast good restaurant.�
Lately she has accompanied us to the skating rink.�
Last week I picked her up and she smelled like she had been drinking.�
How should I set boundaries with her? Am I morally obligated to allow her to visit her grand kids?
Her daughter (my ex wife's sister) told me that she cut off all contact with this woman (her mom) and will not allow her any contact with her kids. Should I do the same?

Personally I do not like her. During my pending divorce she participating in my wife's concealing the whereabouts of my children, in violation of a court order.�
The children like her and she seems to show care for them but I do not want them to be emotionally dependent on an alcoholic relative, nor do I want them to listen to her lies.�

Can you please offer me guidance?
Thank you

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email from dr Harley:

I apologize for having not read all of the other posts you sent. �You are right that you can refuse to let your children see their grandmother, so take that problem off the table. �I suggest that you discuss the problem with the one supervising your wife�s visitation. �If the children are to be told by you that they can�t see their grandmother, you should have some backup from a respected person. �In the final analysis, the grandmother may be encouraged to clean up her act if she ever wants to see her grandchildren, which would be good for the grandmother. �If the supervisor feels that it�s okay for your children to be with their grandmother while she�s drunk, you have a problem greater than the grandmother.

Jedi_Knight #2785901 02/27/14 10:39 AM
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I'm really sorry you all had to go through that with their Grandma. Definitely if B got to a point where he's drunk in the middle of the day when the kids are with him I would have to look at all this again. I think he can keep it together for at least another 5 years until YD is 18, and if that changes, it would get obvious like it had in the past.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2786104 02/27/14 04:42 PM
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Jedi I was really surprised at what my attorney said, that I can go for custody modification for my younger one because he has been intoxicated when watching them, even though he hasn't been driving them intoxicated. I've been in Alanon for years and heard over and over that nothing could be done unless there is violence or DUI. Thanks for talking to me even when I'm hard-headed.

I still want to try to resolve this amicably, off to go talk to the IC together.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2786312 02/28/14 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
I haven't contacted Dr. H. I had a session with Steve in 2006 and my ex and I each had a session with him in 2008 but somehow I didn't register my ex's drinking as the pressing issue at those points and neither of us mentioned it.

I do take Jedi's words to heart. Somehow it is coming off here like I have been just sweeping this under the rug, but this is something that I have taken seriously for quite some time. My OD doesn't currently drink at all, she has been passing the screens she gets in the youth program she is in. She's been dealt a rough hand not just the drinking, and when she first went to the IC it wasn't one of the issues she was asking for help with; she had some bigger mental health struggles. We have a session tomorrow and I can talk to the IC again then.
Will you at the very least, email Dr. Harley? He answers questions all the time about addictions, children. Not just about infidelity.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



NewEveryDay #2786316 02/28/14 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Jedi I was really surprised at what my attorney said, that I can go for custody modification for my younger one because he has been intoxicated when watching them, even though he hasn't been driving them intoxicated. I've been in Alanon for years and heard over and over that nothing could be done unless there is violence or DUI. Thanks for talking to me even when I'm hard-headed.

I still want to try to resolve this amicably, off to go talk to the IC together.

my experience with Alanon is that many remain in a victim mindset and can't move on.
Your case is a good example: Most people would say that a child cannot be supervised by an intoxicated adult. If the police observed it, they would call children services and take the child into custody. Most of the public knows this.

Yet you heard in alanon.."cant...cant ...cant"

Technically, if you knowingly allow children to be in the care of an impaired adult and dont take action it is considered child neglect.

I would not talk to the ex husband; I would instruct the attorney to file for custody and allow the attorney to do all the talking. The attorney knows what to do and you dont.

Jedi_Knight #2786360 02/28/14 02:07 PM
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Quote
If the police observed it, they would call children services and take the child into custody. Most of the public knows this.

Jedi, I called CPS, my ex called the police, multiple times, to try to get help for my then-young siblings in my violent alcoholic FOO. They asked the kids some questions, and left without doing anything, not even offer parenting classes or some kind of follow-up. So I do not blame my "can't" on Al-anon.

I spoke to a good friend last night who had been a GAL for years, and recommended that I not file for modification of shared custody. That it is a difficult thing to prove, and my kids don't see it as a problem. OD's IC didn't seem alarmed, and B insisted that he is modelling healthy drinking behavior by asking OD to drive when he's been drinking. I have a session scheduled with my IC tomorrow and I'll talk to him about it.

And Brain I'll email Dr. H.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2786369 02/28/14 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
And Brain I'll email Dr. H.

Fantastic, let us know when you hear back.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2786589 03/02/14 07:30 PM
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Brain, I have the email ready, and was looking for the email address, is it mbradio@marriagebuilders.com?


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2786611 03/02/14 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Brain, I have the email ready, and was looking for the email address, is it mbradio@marriagebuilders.com?
That's it.

Let us know how it goes. smile


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2786737 03/03/14 01:53 PM
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Thanks Brain, he already responded!

Originally Posted by Ned
Hi, I have been an active member on the MB forum since 2005, I post as NewEveryDay over there. I tried to save my marriage, but my ex's drinking made it impossible to resolve our other issues together. The posters over there gave me a ton of support and ideas trying to save my marriage, and then afterwords, and I am very grateful for that resource you have made available. In my first month joining MB, I was encouraged to try Al-anon, and that has been a big help too. When we divorced, I agreed to 50 50 shared custody, which is the norm here in Florida. BrainHurts encouraged me to write to you, because they said that you have cautioned folks not to leave their kids with someone intoxicated. My daughters are 12 and 18, so I guess we are talking about the younger one here.

I talked with a friend who is a Guardian Ad Litem, and she said it is very difficult to prove that one parent is intoxicated. He doesn't drive with them, he has my older daughter drive. He starts drinking in the evening with dinner, and my daughter is pretty self-sufficient with her evening routine. I am reluctant to go for modified custody because the kids don't think there is a problem and would describe it how he does, that he has a couple of drinks with and after dinner.


Thanks for reading,
[Ned]

Originally Posted by Dr. H
Hi [Ned],

The study that BrainHurts was referring to was done in Iowa in the 1980s. They found that alcoholics that were intoxicated while being left alone with their children had a 70% chance of molesting at least one of them. I�ve counseled many women who were molested by their fathers while he was intoxicated, and he can�t remember any of it. While that study and my experience are not enough to prevent your husband from having them over for his share of visitation, your daughters should both be warned that when he�s intoxicated, they might be in danger, and to let you know if he starts doing anything �weird.� I doubt that he will let himself get intoxicated while he is with them, and a drink with and after dinner wouldn�t do it. There�s nothing much you can do about it until something actually happens.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

I thanked him for his response, and agree that watchful waiting for now sounds appropriate. Having a family meeting with OD's IC was helpful last week, it reminds him that there are folks looking out for these kids. And the kids know they can come to me with any issues, that I am looking out for them and not just looking to keep the peace at any cost. I have had the conversation about reaching out if they see anything weird, but since it's come up it's a good time to have that conversation again.

Brain, Jedi, thanks for talking this out with me. I have had some lingering guilt over this time, and you help me feel more at peace. It is a reasonable question I've gotten over the years, why get yourself to a better place but leave your kids stuck there so much. So it helps me to remember that the kids, especially my older one, know they have choices, and they aren't stuck, and I haven't swept it under the rug and pretend it's all good.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2786743 03/03/14 02:04 PM
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NED,

The situation you described to Dr. Harley is not what you described on this forum.

You said here that he is INTOXICATED, to the point of legal intoxication because someone has to drive him around.

Your email to Dr Harley made it sound like he has a couple drinks in the evening.

Jedi_Knight #2786747 03/03/14 02:18 PM
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Jedi, I didn't leave out that he has OD drive for him. I said if you ask the kids, they repeat back the story they hear from their dad, even though when I was there I could see him getting intoxicated over the course of the evening. I am not trying to minimize the issue, just be realistic.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2786757 03/03/14 03:28 PM
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As i read your letter to Dr. Harley, it sure sounded like you did not paint the same picture you have relayed in your posts and made the "Minor" couple of drinks sound so minimal, that you actually made your ex sound responsible by having someone else drive, even when they "Only" had a couple of drinks.

His reply probably would have been drastically different if you portrayed the drinking episodes as we have heard it.

It seems like you wanted to evoke a minimalistic reply based on the way you put forth your e-mail.

LTL

NewEveryDay #2786765 03/03/14 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Jedi, I didn't leave out that he has OD drive for him. I said if you ask the kids, they repeat back the story they hear from their dad, even though when I was there I could see him getting intoxicated over the course of the evening. I am not trying to minimize the issue, just be realistic.

Drinking an alcoholic drink or two with dinner is not getting intoxicated.

Jedi_Knight #2786807 03/03/14 10:03 PM
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I agree. Believe me I didn't get divorced over a few drinks over dinner. I could write Dr. H back with some examples but the kids have already been given explanations by their Dad for all of it.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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