I am 35, X is 38, 2 kids together, youngest 3yo, together 12 yrs but with some bumps. First child was a "surprise" and I was not real happy. Moved her in with me. 3 yrs later, she moved to her own house. That was the first time I realized I really did love her. Lost 30lb off an in-shape frame and about lost it. Got back together and later moved back to my house.

Moved her out today. 2 days ago she had a Bday with a girlfriend downtown and was spending the night at a hotel due to all the snow. She made sure to tell the boys in front of me that she was staying with all girls, going to eat until they were fat, and all sleep in a big bed. I know here and she is honest Edna so I really have little doubt on her outing but why would she feel the need to make sure I knew this was a girls outing? I also noticed she was wearing a custom necklace I bought for her. However, the girl she was going with made it so.....

All of this has come down to her view on providing. She says I don't provide "enough". I pay the house payment, taxes, insurance, utilities, trash, etc. She pays the food bill and kids stuff. I would think it was fair but.... I really think her prime issue is "providing". We have a large property ad supposed to build 2 yrs ago. Still working on that. Things happen and the economy is NOT helping!

She ended up moving right down the street less than 1/4 mi. I guess in my man brain, if I wanted to really get away, I would move further but I realize rentals in the area are harder to get... Her rationale is easy adjustment for our boys.

I am thoroughly confused if I should start dating and possibly ruin what we "might" have or stay straight and work on my business matters and improve me. I know reading all the static online "working on me" seems the norm but IMO, I don't need as much work as my pocket book. Both of us are fairly minimalists but she is getting a little greedy IMO or at least desire to have more. Her clients usually have nicer homes and such so I think she has "the wants" but she grew up with much less than me.

Hi Bobby, welcome to Marriage Builders. A couple of questions. Are you married? Has she been married before? Has she ever had an affair?

We never married. We finally got engaged 3 yrs ago and were engaged 2yrs and looking for a place to get married and things came apart over the last year over where she wants to be in life, what I promised, etc. I genuinely believe if I got some finances in order and got the new place built, she might change her tune but I am not sure that is the type of person I need.

No, there is no history of affairs. We are both very committed type people. I never really desire anyone else when I am getting lovin from her but that has been an issue for me. I can't go 2 weeks or more with no love and feel like my needs are met.

I really think my needs are not her concern, only her own. She rarely would put out when I wanted, only when she wanted. My side of the story anyway.

She was married before, young, and lasted a year. I guess the husband turned a complete 180 when married and was a total [censored], cheating, etc. Always wanted to know more about that though. Tend to wonder if she pulled back after marriage there too but she was very hurt and doubtfully intentional about anything.

You need to read the book "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders". This book will help you understand the dynamics of your relationship.

You are both renters right now. You have been renters for a very long time. You need to become buyers, and the book will tell you how to make this happen. BTW, an essential part of being buyers is getting married.

Living together before marriage is a sure fire relationship killer because those relationships tend to be renters relationships. What that means is that they live in the house until something better comes along. The relationships are tentative and temporary, in other words. While your relationship can be saved if both of you want to change it into a buyers relationship, it seems she has checked out of the relationship.

Check this out: Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse?

To be honest, I was raised around the church with a good value set taught to me and I understand marriage and commitment. We were together several years before she started with the marriage talks but I honestly never got the vibe that she really knew what a "marriage" was, just that she wanted a ring and look like we were a family. I don't take marriage lightly.

I was finally able to put myself in that mind set and proposed. Actually what started off our issues is one day, she just stopped wearing the ring. No talk, no communication, just stopped wearing it. Still pisses me off that she does not have a clue what commitment even is.

Now I read through our MC that she is "amazed at how much I lover her and never do give up on her". Like duh, that is what commitment IS. Means I will hold your hand through fire and ice to the end. She totally lacks that capacity and I am not totally convinced she even has the ability. Raised around nothing but divorce and selfishness.

She is a really good person but I learned a few things when she left. When gathering her things, she just gathered up stuff that she bought, regardless. If it was an Xmas gift for the kids and she paid for it, there is no talk of where it should stay. Plants she bought for this place....Does not matter, she paid for them, she takes them.

What totally torques me is when we sold her house, I did all the repairs and sold it myself netting her a nice 5 figure bank. I have done several things like that for her but I get zero recognition for any of that. In short, services have zero value to her, only cash.

Sir, you may be able to win her back and it would be great for your kids if you did win her back and got married.

But you need the tools to win her back, because your method isnt working.

Dr. Harley is an expert at relationships, he has taught them at the university level and applied them in a dating service he owned as well as authoring best selling books.

First you need to understand the dynamics of the relationship. The counselor you're seeing wont be able to help a lot; the counselor can tell you, "She says she feels....."

BUT you need to know WHY she feels.


Have you read the links posted to you above?

They are a good starting point.

I suggest you:

- Read the links posted above

- Get the book Buyers Renters Freeloaders by Dr. Willard Harley

I honestly feel I should have pulled the plug with our MC. She was VERY new last year. Like only 1-2mo with license. I don't think she was pushing the right questions to figure things out.

I am not sure what to think of my X at this point. She is on a self exploration phase wanting to be a "free bird" or "spread her wings". She is convinced that a marriage should be nothing but hearts and roses and says my parents (married 40yrs) should divorce because my mom sometimes feel exhausted. I am just not totally sure she even really want to be married, EVER.

Now that we are split again, I am not real sure how to proceed with anything? Everything I read says trying to pursue in this phase makes me look weak and make her run more.

I have no idea.

Are you reading the posts people make to you?
We are telling you what Dr. Harley would recommend.

I did read up on it and took the quiz. However, how is reading a book going to tell me if and how to attempt to reconcile?

How will you know if you don't arm yourself with the proper understanding and resources?

A book is a very cheap investment to make versus the commitment required for a marital relationship. How committed are you to your current relationship?

LTL

Reading the material on this website and reading the books that Dr. Harley wrote is what brought many of the folks on this forum into a much better, radically changed-for-the-better marriage.

The book "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders" is an excellent book that sheds light how relationships work, from a very logical understanding.

Dude. Stop!!! Right now. Get that book (Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders) and start reading. It was written by an absolute expert, specifically to your demographic, dealing with exactly your issue. It has the answers you are looking for.

Until you read that book, there isn't much any of us can do to help you. We have all read the book, and know it's what you need.

ak

So you are saying it has a play by play once your SO has moved into another place and with every intention of it being permanent?

I guess I am trying to understand once I am armed with all the knowledge that I think I need, how will that affect my SO?

As well, the highlights of the book indicate explanations of the 3 stages of a relationship. OK, we ID who we are and want to be. BUT, it is not that simple.

Not trying to avoid the read, just trying to be practical in how informing me would change my SO.

BRF is not a book about processes. It's a book that helps a person understand how relationships work and they fail. Once we have a solid understanding, we can make much better decisions.


It won't necessarily affect your SO; it will affect YOU. It will help YOU make better decisions in how to conduct your relationship.



Well, it really is pretty simple, once we have that understanding. We were married about 32 years when we read that book and we still learned a lot about why our relationship was so difficult and what was making it work so much better.


Informing yourself will help YOU. It might help your current situation; it might not. But if you understand what Dr. Harley says in BRF, it will definitely affect your future relationships.

Dr. H., realizing that many men don't really like to read, especially relationship books, sells the book in CD form. Check the MB bookstore.

Here's a link to some excellent material based on the book BRF:

>>>>>>> Here

Moving from Renter in a relationship to Buyer is foundational to creating a great marriage. Live-in relationships are usually renter relationships and are troubled by arguments and fighting, and sacrificing.

Let me explain one example of our issues. We were told from various places to explore our love languages. We are tight enough that we did it together and tried to better explain our answers to each other.

My language is profoundly affection based. However, even knowing that, she did zero about it. Her application of love is gifts, whether she chooses to accept it or not. She does not kiss me, hug, me, say I love you, BUT she does bring home fresh Pecans that I love, or insulated sock since my feet get cold in the snow. I more than appreciate the gifts and IMO shows love BUT I seriously cannot get to the next level without what I require.

As a story, when we were separated for about 6mo probably 8yrs ago, I met a very wealthy doctor and she was just nuts for me and it felt great to have someone appreciate my attributes in the mechanical and engineering world. My SO just comes to expect me to fix her cars, fix appliances, do chores, make more money than her and support her, etc.

This new lady friend was so sold on me that she was ready to build a large home with me and owned 2 cars worth 6 figures. I learned from that experience that is not me and I could never respect myself accepting gifts like that, unearned. It certainly taught me a valuable lesson in myself!

Do you just intend to use this as a blog?

If you are unwilling to read Dr. Harley's materials how can anyone help you using his principles?

But exploring one's Love Languages is often very ineffective. MB isn't about doing that. It's about following the POJA for LIFE and meeting each others ENs and avoiding LBs.

Are you reading any of the links?

Yet, if you are both renters, your relationship would not have worked any better than your current one, and the fact that you bring this up proves you are a renter.

Sorry to say, you aren't going to have more relationship success until you learn, and you are so focused on the specifics that you aren't being teachable.

So your call....

ak