As a male, identifying my EN is difficult (other than SF). My W is willing to meet my needs and wants to ensure they are all met at home but I can't seem to identify a strong desire for any other EN to be met by her. Generally, I don't view home/marriage as a place to fulfill my EN. I do know that I get a lot of satisfaction with my work (Software Engineer) but can't say I'm searching for anything else from W or anyone else. W found out a few months ago that I was viewing porn (P) and, in the clearing-the-air process, was shocked to find out that I had been dealing with lust (L) most of my life (P was intermittent but a lot late last year; am in recovery program now). Perhaps a side-effect of the L & P has been a shutdown or stifling of any other EN(?). So, my question is for men, have you had trouble identifying your EN and, if so, how did you break through that?

Follow-up: I have filled out all the EN questionnaires MB prescribes, but none stand out to me as a "need" other than SF.

It is a good idea to focus on the top 4 intimate emotional needs of sexual fulfillment, conversation, affection and recreational companionship because they give you the biggest bang for your buck. Any of the others are minor because they are non intimate EN's and won't do much for your lovebank.

I would focus on staying away from porn, of course, but scheduling 20+ hours per week of unidivided attention time focusing on those 4 intimate EN's. Those will make the greatest deposits in the shortest amount of time.

Do you have His Needs, Her Needs? Are you following the program in it?

Check this out: The Policy of Undivided Attention

Did you cut out the porn? Is it completely out of your life?

These are the four needs that Dr. Harley focuses on in his counseling, regardless of what needs the couple identify on their ENQs. Dr. Harley does not encourage endless navel gazing about identifying emotional needs. If these four intimate emotional needs are met and love busters are eliminated, the relationship will be restored and all other problems will become easier to solve, including meeting the other emotional needs as necessary. Have you read the thread titled "The critical importance of undivided attention?" Read that as well as Dr. Harley's article in the Basic Concepts about Undivided Attention.

What are your wife's main complaints about the relationship?

Here.
The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

Excellent questions.

My husband also had trouble finding his EN. He'd claim he was in charge of his own happiness and you are in charge of your own, blah blah blah. (He did not have a porn addiction)

I'm guessing for you its the Porn addiction setting you up. Ultimately it gets down to IB. IB will delude with the recipe of opportunity + entitlement + rationalization = avoid intimacy. "I don't need anyone to help me feel good, not even my wife." You could work on your Porn addiction but if you don't lose the recipe and keep applying it in other ways to avoid, yes, you will be able to prove to yourself only that you do not need your wife up until she decides she does not need you either. Of course what's the point in this? Sometimes I feel certain engineers isolate themselves so much they are really good at creating their own weird stew. Just my own opinion.

When my husband started talking w/Steve Harley like this, Steve talked about navel gazing and so on. Yep, start meeting EN of conversation, SF, affection and RC and you will be on your way.

How long have you been in your recovery program? Is it a 12-step program? Do you have a sponsor?

When's the last time you've looked at porn?

Yes, the porn (P) has been cut out completely since the day my W found out about it. I'm not yet convinced I was addicted but I'm attending a recovery program just the same (it can't hurt me) and I never want that in my life again. Also, we have put a number of EPs in place. I feel that I've moved a good ways down the "road", away from a life with P but W has much to deal with. A lot of triggers for her in this home.

Our lifestyle right now is very unpleasant -- we need to change it. I work 45-55 hr/week commuting 45 ea. way, go to 2 recovery meetings/week plus meet with pro. counselor weekly. B/c our our home is too expensive now for us and the triggers here, we are getting ready to sell so we're working (when we can) on packing up the excess into a POD out front. SD has significant health issues. W home schools SD and tends to her 24/7, esp. when her health issue flares up. There are many Dr. appointments every month for SD. There's more but you get the picture, eh? We have little to no free time so trying to sked 20-25hr/week for UA is difficult. Moving out/downsizing and getting a job closer to home (prob. after the move) with less hours are two major steps we're taking soon to improved our lifestyle. Cash flow has been negative, too, hence the overtime.

I'm aware of the 4 EN which Dr H. wants us to focus on but perhaps I wasn't clear -- none of them are a draw or attraction for me, even if my W completely focuses on me in trying to give me those experiences.

More background on me : I've been treated for depression, anxiety and OCD for about 7 years and generally feel well as far as these issues go. Although the Rx I take helps me to feel better, they also clip off emotions such that not much moves me or touches me emotionally. Also, I have sleep apnea. Although I've been using CPAP for years, I haven't been getting good sleep lately like when I first had the device. I met with my sleep PA recently who switched me to a different mask but something is wrong still (pressure not high enough?). I plan to contact her next week about that.

Thanks for all your responses/suggestions.

When my H (or I) have had a hard time identifying ENs, we would ask each other (or ourselves) what gives us that "butterfly" feeling in our stomach when thinking about certain things in regards to each other?

For example:

Do you get butterflies/a good feeling when you look at your wife? Does particular clothing or a hairstyle on her give you that feeling? (Physical Attractiveness)

Do you get that feeling when hugging or kissing your W, or holding her hand or sitting close to her on the couch? Do you desire to do this often and find yourself wishing she would spontaneously hug or kiss you? (Affection)

Do you get that feeling when she goes out of her way to make a special meal for you, or organizes your closet for you, or keeps the house clean? (Domestic Support)

Do you get that feeling when you see her spending time with the family and doing nice things for and with them? (Family Commitment)

I would start your week by scheduling your UA time FIRST and then scheduling the other less important things. Since it is the most important time of your week, it should be scheduled and it should be put first.


We understand this.. The reason they do nothing for you *NOW* is because you and your wife have fallen out of love. That is the purpose of this exercise. WE are focused on what will CAUSE you to fall in love. That is spending 20+ hours per week meeting EACH OTHERS intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. Don't concern yourself with the non-intimate ENs of domestic commitment, etc, because those will not fill the lovebank. Concern yourself with those 4.

But that cannot happen unless you start putting your marriage first and those other less important things, your job, counseling, 12 Step group, etc further down the priority list.

It is very important to SCHEDULE this time because time that is not scheduled is too easy to put off. WE use this worksheet: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4508_tuaw.html

Right here is some good time that could be put to better use. Cut out the recovery meetings, counseling and cut back on your work hours. That is especially important since you enjoy your job so much. It is competing with your recreational time with your wife. I would make it point to cut back your work hours to 40 hours a week so you will have time for your marriage.

I would plan as much time out of the house as you possibly can, on DATES OUT. Harley recommends 4 - 4 hour dates. If you add on 1-2 hours afterwards for SF, you have your UA time.

Another way Dr. H suggested we do this is to ask ourselves what would be upsetting to us, or repulse us, if these things did NOT happen.

Would you be upset if she suddenly gained a lot of weight or only wore crummy clothes all the time or never wore make-up?

Would you be upset if you never got another spontaneous hug or kiss from your wife?

Would you be upset if she never made meals or kept the house clean?

Would you be upset if she never spent time with the family?

irecover, put aside the EN questionnaire and focus exclusively on these ENs for now. These are the intimate emotional needs which make the greatest lovebank deposits the FASTEST:

here

And while non intimate emotional needs like domestic support, family commitment, etc, might be one of your EN's, they won't make enough lovebank deposits to move the needle. Those typically rank high when people have fallen out of love. But they won't help much in restoring the romantic love to your marriage. It is the INTIMATE emotional needs that will achieve that.

more from The Policy of Undivided Attention

iRecovery,

Lots of people come here w/marriages in trouble. They learn a lot about what makes a marriage work and start making ready to take action to create a lifestyle that will support their marriage.

You have made some major changes and actions that are going to benefit your relationship with your wife. And you plan to make more big changes in the future. Its great you have come here to check in. At this juncture we can help you tweak things to get ahead efficiently.

MelodyLane is dishing out specific advice you can implement right away even before you move. Mainly edit your time commitments to work and recovery programs. Don't worry about what is moving you or what is not moving you these days. Isn't it great that burden is off your back? That alone will justify not going to recovery meetings and using that time to date your wife.

Here is an idea to kick off the new recovery program: Surprise your wife. Make childcare arrangements. Go through your wife's closet and lay out a outfit/dress you like or know she likes to wear. Write a nice note. Say "Please put this on for me, I want to take my beautiful wife out."

Take her out to dinner or make up a nice picnic. Talk about things she likes. Really try to get to know her all over again. Show patience and courtesy towards her in the fashion she likes. I like to order food at a restaurant before my husband. He used to start ordering for himself when the waiter arrived. Or he'd think I was done ordering and start his order and I'd get half of what I wanted. Annoying habits I used to put up with. These type of courtesies alone are important info to know about your wife. If you stay busy at work or in your own recovery you might be missing the heart of a full recovery.

Also going for a walk after dinner tends to facilitate positive discussion.

These above ideas meet 3 out of 4 of the top EN. If you add SF after you will be meeting all four. Just take care not to love bust along the way hence getting ot know your wife better today and not assume she has stayed the same since you met.

What are your wife's main complaints about the relationship? Maybe I missed your answer...

If you will try the policy of undivided attention, and build an integrated lifestyle with your wife, you will find that you like it, even if the needs don't have much appeal for you right now.

Moreover, your wife needs this, even if you do not. A bad marriage is depressing to most women and has serious health consequences for her. I would urge you to start immediately, for her sake. We already know she needs this. We can help you figure out your needs as you go. My guess is, you will like having a happy wife who is in love with you and thinks you hung the moon.

Does your wife post here? If so, what is her posting name? If not, can you ask her to join us?

Here's a thread of a fellow poster who had problems with gawking at women. There are some radio clips in it also.
1HopefulGuy's Thread about Gawking