Affairs are symptoms of bad relationships and a spouses needs not being met. I dont see why anyone is on THIS board if they dont understand that or believe that....the entire site is basically dedicated to that and if seems like no one on the forum seems to get that. Do you guys actually read the articles on this site???

So is your wife similarly entitled to a faithful husband since you vowed to be faithful before God and man? I don't believe you ever had an entitlement for adultery, though...


Understand. You were guilty so you felt guilty...as you should.


This is part of the problem and indicates why your wife is not safe with you. You don't understand how traumatic adultery is. Being deprived of sex is certainly frustrating, but to equate it to something as traumatic as rape, assault or the death of a child clearly indicates an severe lack of empathy.


I would suggest that you are the least objective person on this thread because you have a vested interest in minimizing the damage you have caused and seem to be operating under a fog.

The reason affairs exist is because the cheater has pisspoor boundaries. In your case, I would suggest that it was much more. It was a sense of entitlement as it seems you were on the troll for action.

That makes you an unsafe person to your spouse.

There are always reasons for an affair but there are never excuses. The Harleys state this frequently. The reason might be unmet ENs, love busters, separations, whatever, but that never gives either spouse the right to have an affair.

So what's a person to do when their needs are not being met?

Rather than have an affair, which is very very painful for the betrayed spouse, Dr. Harley recommends being open with the spouse about the unmet needs and keeping it on the front burner. If the spouse refuses to meet the ENs, then he recommends separation. He never advocates having an affair, because the betrayal is very painful for the other spouse. He would suggest separation and even divorce when a spouse refuses to meet ENs.

The posters here must agree to the Terms of Service before posting, which means that, yes, they must read and understand the articles on this website.

Everything that is being said to you is what Dr. Harley would say. He has said that many people who have both been raped AND betrayed by their spouse said that the betrayal was MORE painful.

It's understandable that you felt rejected and unloved by your wife, but you didn't HAVE to have an affair to have those needs met.

No, that is not universally true. What is universally true is the cheater ALWAYS has pisspoor boundaries around the opposite sex. In happy marriages where all the needs are met 100%, an affair can occur if the cheater has poor boundaries.

You misunderstood Dr Harley if you believe you have an excuse for your affairs. There are NO EXCUSES for an affair.

Unmet needs made the affairs more tempting, but if your boundaries were secure the affairs would have never happened.

Bank robberies are symptoms of people with lack of money. Everybody who commits a crime has a reason. They still get locked up. See what I mean? You're confusing reasons with excuses.

Not only do we READ the articles, we have read the books, gone through the MB program, listened to hours of Dr Harley's radio, and most of us have met him in person!! You have done none of that. Here is what he actually says about your blame game and your excuses:

Bad relationships and needs not being met are valid reasons to ask your spouse to work on repairing the marriage or to divorce, they are not valid reasons for cheating.

I was in a bad marriage where I was neglected, but I didn't feel entitled to cheat on my spouse.

Do you see your justification and why it is wrong?

Really? I thought affairs were caused by bad boundaries and allowing other persons of the opposite to make love bank deposits until they breach the romantic love threshold. Both definitions follow from MB, but your definition places the blame on your spouse, whereas my definition places the blame on you. The blame belongs with you. Own what you did. There are solutions to a bad marriage besides choosing to have an affair. I suggest you read this site objectively, rather than cherry picking for reasons to excuse yourself.

I never said it was okay for me to have an affair, you guys are assuming that...I said there are reasons it happens! In my case, ALL of the things you bolded in red were refused. I suppose in all of your eyes I should have just got a divorce however I felt like that wouldnt be good for our children (i still feel that way and im glad we didnt divorce.)

Like its said in the article you posted....when needs get met by someone else it causes huge deposits. Well when someone utterly neglects a spouse their needs are going to end up being met by others. Its just going to happen, people in day to day life, at work, ect will ask the neglected person whats wrong, ect. when your totally neglected you cant just put yourself in a box for years and years. Eventually someone somewhere is going to casually meet a need and your going to fall into a huge hole over it. Its just a fact of life. I went for a lot of years trying to dodge that hole but eventually you get to tired of dodging it and you fall into one.

And from my perspective (which you guys prob wont agree)...spouse neglect and rejection is also not justified or excusable and that is typically the first step that leeds to affairs. Not many people get married thinking, awesome now i can have affairs! No one does that, its typically born out of relationship issues.


but now that we have covered all of this and discussed yall bias towards someone who has had affairs....is there anyone here who can actually help with the actual problem im facing?

No one here would expect you to live in a marriage in which your needs were completely neglected. Dr. Harley advocates the position of "I'll meet your needs AND you meet my needs."

Here's what you will need to do to make sure you are affair-proofing your marriage:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the love OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

This is from Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair.

Your wife would need to join you in a program of recovery where you both learn to meet each others needs in a way that makes both of you happy.

You will have to make sure that you don't allow any other women to meet your ENs. Period.

I havent cherry picked anything. I brought my wife to this site after reading it myself and it has been a HUGE help to our marriage.

From my perspective, as I read peoples discussions and such I see that most people on here are victims of an affair and dont take any blame or understanding of their role in the affair. No matter if anyone wants to admit it or not, affairs happen for a reason. Its not about boundries, if needs were being met boundries wouldnt be THAT big of an issue because they are in love with their spouse....and there are writings here that talk about that.

I can tell by how everyone responds to me that most of you are biast and harbor resentment. Its sad really, not one person even attempted to address the issue or talk to me about it. You are all too stuck seeing urselves as victims. But honestly if a spouse neglects another spouse affairs and divorces are the results....and statistics back that up. As well as many articles of this site.

That doesnt mean affairs or divorses are good or right....its just how things go most of the time.

Anyway, ill go find somewhere else to discuss the issue. No one here is interested in really fixing things

Well sir, perhaps you will take my opinion - I am neither a betrayed spouse nor have I committed an affair, we came to MB to deal with childcare issues, not adultery.

You are in no position to dictate here. You have committed multiple affairs, you have evidently blamed her for them, you have made the decision to have affairs INSTEAD of file for separation and divorce, in other words, you've wanted to enjoy the privilege of her caring for your home and child, while you get your jollies on the side.

RE: Boundaries

When we first started having problems, there were nights we would sit in opposite rooms - him playing computer games, me upstairs waiting for the kids to fall asleep, even though they were long asleep. Neither of us was looking for side action. Why? Because even when there are problems in a marriage, you don't go outside the marriage. That's a boundary YOU crossed.

Our marriage is better than ever now!! And I can assure you that it was FAR EASIER to fix without any affair issue. Your affairs have crippled what could have been reasonable to fix - sexual aversion. It was like you had a gash on your leg so you went and chopped the whole damn thing off instead of going to a doctor.

Yes, you'll have to go elsewhere to be told what you want to hear. Until then, you are a drunk lecturing the recovered alcoholics at AA meeting - we watch with sorrow, knowing that you believe your foolishness and your family at home is still at danger of your relapse.

Your wife would be wise to divorce you unless you have a serious attitude change.

Thank you! We have done all of that except we cant move and didnt write a letter. The affair was ended a few weeks prior to reading about writing a letter so we didnt.


But here is my problem. I think because of all the past neglect Im having a hard time attaching and totally believing things. Like as an example if she says something nice or flirty to me, it doesnt have the same emotional effect as it would from someone else. I dont really believe it in my heart. If she says she wants to have sex, i dont get excited about it because i dont really brlieve it.

My head tells me shes does feel that way...but ive spent soooo many years seeing her as someone who has nothing for me that im having a hard time seeing her as someone who wants me and believing it.

Should that change with time??

Thank you

Do the OWs live close by? If so, you and your wife should strongly consider moving and starting all over again somewhere else.

If you and your wife continue to commit to spending 20 hours every single week, time spent away from the children, and this time becomes the most enjoyable time for both of you, then yes, your feelings will change.

ETA: If you both follow the MB program of recovery, then you will be in love with each other and have a great marriage, one that is both passionate and safe. But each step needs to be followed by BOTH spouses.

The letter still should be done - this is you demonstrating to her that you mean business and that she knows the OWs have been properly advised of no-contact. Your word that the affair(S) ended is not worth anything, you still need to earn trust back.

Where did you meet these women? What were the conditions (internet, bar, whatever)? Are they living nearby? Do you ever see them in daily life?

How long has it been since you ended your last affair? How did you meet the OW? Have you changed all your contact info?

This will be a huge problem in your recovery if you don't accept that you were 100% responsible for your choice to have an affair. There are no excuses. It is ALL about appropriate boundaries and until you accept this, you are a dangerous person to your wife.

Even people who are in love and have their needs met 100% have affairs when they have inappropriate boundaries. Dr Harley will tell you this. So the first thing that has to happen is that you clean up your poor boundaries and start protecting your wife. Otherwise, she should not remain married to you.

Dr Harley is not a "victim" of an affair and he will tell you this very thing.

Well...not really and you still haven't answered one but nevermind.

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