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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
A critical element of marital recovery is confronting problems head on in a respectful manner. A spouse cannot change his/her behavior if they do not know the exact problem. Beating around the bush or sweeping problems under the rug is not a MB practice, it is the practice of conflict avoiders.
Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley in Requirements for Recovery
"Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance."


The issue of porn should be addressed head on and kept on the front burner until it is resolved. That is Dr Harley's approach to marital problems.


Dr Harley says this on the radio show a lot. He basically says "keep complaining" if the problem is not getting solved.

BSW, do you listen to MB radio show?


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Yes I listen.

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Originally Posted By: Bluebird51
Yes I listen.


Great!

I actually posed that question to BWS because his advice is NOT something Dr Harley would advise.


Last edited by SusieQ; 03/25/14 02:39 PM.

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So once I have info from the keylogger that H has been looking at porn, I obviously can't tell him about the keylogger -- that would incense him and I'm sure he'd leave.

Do I just ask him if he's been looking at it alot lately? What if he says no and meanwhile I know he has been? I see a terrible confrontation brewing.

He always argues rings around me anyway and no doubt I'll come out of any confrontation at the losing end.

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No, don't ASK him, tell him. Let him know that you have been watching his internet activity and you know he is looking at porn. Tell him how upsetting this is to you and tell him you don't think your marriage will work unless he stops it.

If he objects to your spying on him, I would remind him that you are his wife and have a right and a need to know everything he does. Does he have secrets from you? If so, then that is objectionable since everything he does affects you.

Explain to him that you find pornography to be a terrible offense and ask him to stop. Tell him what you have learned about the contrast effect.

Here is a Harley quote about hiding things in marriage - just substitute porn for affair:

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
For an unfaithful spouse to engage in an affair without detection, two separate lives must be created, one for the lover and one for the spouse. A certain amount of dishonesty is required in both of them, but the major deception is with the spouse.

So one of the most common clues of an affair is an unwillingness to let a spouse investigate all aspects of life. If two lives are necessary for an affair, and if a spouse is curious enough, the secret second life is relatively easy to discover. Difficulty in getting a spouse to talk about events of the day can be a sign of trying to hide the second life.

One of the most common smoke-screens used by unfaithful spouses is to express shock that their spouse would be so distrusting as to ask questions about their secret second life. They try to make it seem as if such questions are an affront to their dignity, and a sign of incredible disrespect. They figure that the best defense is a good offense, and so they try to make their spouses feel guilty about asking too many questions.

I am a firm believer in letting each spouse do as much snooping around as they want. Nothing should be kept secret in marriage, and no questions should be left unanswered. If a spouse objects to such scrutiny, what might he or she be hiding?
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
No, don't ASK him, tell him. Let him know that you have been watching his internet activity and you know he is looking at porn.


When he asks "how" tell him you won't divulge that information.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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He is not used to being questioned - that really upsets him . I have a feeling he was the "boss" in his other marriages and is used to having the upper hand. This will not go well...

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Originally Posted By: Bluebird51
He is not used to being questioned - that really upsets him . I have a feeling he was the "boss" in his other marriages and is used to having the upper hand. This will not go well...



What is not going well is sweeping the problems under the rug. Part of the problem in this short marriage is that problems are swept under the rug. That is something that needs to change in addition to his porn use.

You cannot solve problems if they are not addressed openly. complaints are an opportunity to improve in a good marriage and an irritation in a bad marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Bluebird51
He is not used to being questioned - that really upsets him . I have a feeling he was the "boss" in his other marriages and is used to having the upper hand. This will not go well...


Nope. That's classic behavior for someone who has a SSL - secret second life. Look at the quote ML just posted to you...


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This:

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley
One of the most common smoke-screens used by unfaithful spouses is to express shock that their spouse would be so distrusting as to ask questions about their secret second life. They try to make it seem as if such questions are an affront to their dignity, and a sign of incredible disrespect. They figure that the best defense is a good offense, and so they try to make their spouses feel guilty about asking too many questions.


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Thanks everyone who responded to this thread and provided so much helpful advice. I'll e-mail the Harleys and get the keylooger installed and will update later.

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**EDIT**

moderators note: please familiarize yourself with MB material before posting. Any questions, send me an email. Thank you





Last edited by Denali; 03/26/14 10:03 AM. Reason: TOS non MB material
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Originally Posted By: BWS71
My suggestion was you take a more holistic and broadly focused approach than simply confronting him about his porn use.


There's very little can be done while an addiction and contrast effect are in play. She has to insist it goes, it is one of the few areas Dr H allows for demands to be made because it is such a serious breach.

Her H will not be enthusiastic and willing regardless of what she puts on the table. That's why she has to insist, not barter or negotiate. That will get her nowhere.

The other things will have to be handled later.

A marriage is a faithful, exclusive arena free from competition. There is nothing a wife can do to progress a great marriage until this basic tenet is met by her H.


Last edited by indiegirl; 03/26/14 09:15 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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My gut feeling is that my asking him to give up any of his independent behaviours is going to cause him to distance further. He has told me before that he's worked long and hard to be able to be free in his own home (had to leave other homes obviously and resents still having to pay child support at his age.)He was a workaholic before he retired.

The fact that I am his hs lost love who he claimed to adore doesn't seem to be reason enough for him to change. He still gets up at 6:00 am each morning and spends two hours on computer reading news, then an almost three hour walk every morning then plays Candy Crush or Ruzzle for an hour, then spends another hour on shower then juicing his lunch. All this time I am alone and wondering why he married me.

As someone here said, I believe he has disconnected emotionally from the world and cannot give more than he already has to me. My first H was like this and nothing ever did improve no matter how many therapists I saw or marriage books I read.

I'll update at some point but don't have much hope.

Last edited by Bluebird51; 03/26/14 09:58 AM.
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A friendly warning to posters that the goal of our forum is to help posters with Marriage Builders solutions. I see a lot of personal philosophies being promoted that are not helpful. Please familiarize yourself with Dr. Harley's views before you post. We appreciate your cooperation.


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Originally Posted By: Bluebird51

The fact that I am his hs lost love who he claimed to adore doesn't seem to be reason enough for him to change..


He was probably banking on not having to. Lots of people believe in unconditional love, also known as 'doing what I please thoughtlessly'

All you can do is set your standards and stick by them.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Bluebird - based on my understanding of your posts and Dr Harley's materials I was unsure whether installing spyware and verifying your husband's porn use would be helpful, since it is not a secret. Apparently Dr Harley has spoken on this quite clearly and I was wrong. I'm not very familiar with his radio show and I am out of the loop as a result. I was mistaken in suggesting you consider a different approach. (Thanks for the clarification Denali)

I look forward to hearing how this goes for you and your husband. =)

BWS

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I just read thru the entire thread. Lots of great advice.

It's unclear to me - was a keylogger ever installed??


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Bluebird,

Does your H have AO's?

You seem very nervous to confront him or discuss anything with him, so it's got me wondering...


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My first husband had these, and was sometimes physically abusive (pushing, shoving, throwing things).

Current H does not do this and never has -- he'll just call me screwed up, or go silent, which is just as hurtful to me as an AO. His main thing is to avoid confrontation, so he'll express anger by withdrawing. When he gave me the silent treatment for four days a couple of weeks ago, I sent him an email asking when he was coming back. He replied he would come back "when he could feel comfortable in his own home." Other than that, I never heard from him and was left alone to worry and think.

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