I didn't mean to twist your words, I have a bad memory.

Yes, you said Next week. and yes, you told me to Plan B after that. i am not disagreeing with that.

This is just the hardest decision I have had to make... and it's not that I am trying to justify dragging it out, it's that I want to be sure it's the right decision for my MARRIAGE. His affair ended because he was married, we're already separated, but if i separate more permanently, there will be no reason for a different OW to end an affair due to marriage..

That is where I am conflicted. That is what he wants me to do, I would be doing exactly what he wants... Yes, it is in my terms, but it is still what he wants :-/

I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to be SURE that this is right for US. I also understand the self-preservation aspect of it.

since I am still plan A-ing for a tiny bit, I want to mention what has happened.

Today, we went to the school to visit, no talking really. He said we will text about it, and he had our daughter for the day. He brought our daughter back, and we all went for a walk together with our dogs. During this time, he told me A is done (he said I knew this b/c I talked to her), and that he is working on taking care of himself for the first time ever. He still wants divorce (didn't say that, but talked that way), but I instead of giving into any drama he might cause (he wasn't being dramatic), continued to lovebust, and I talked about things I am working on. We ended up talking about the school thing, too. Our time out was almost-friendly.

He said he will see us on Wednesday.

It seems you really don't want to follow MB/Dr. Harley's program. Is that correct?

We can only offer you Dr. Harley's advice.
We cant go along with your conflicted methodology of remaining in Plan A and disregarding what Dr. Harley advised.

You have 2 options:

1. Basically, your current path will just allow the affair to continue...eventually it will die as most affairs do die; at that point he will probably return to you. But you will be so beaten down and accustomed to being a doormat that another affair will probably ensue.

2. Following Dr. harley's advice will help your physical and emotional health, while establishing firm rules for a healthy marriage if he decides to end his affair and follow a path of recovery.

The affair HAS ended

...and if he chooses to reconcile with me, by no means am I going to be a doormat (and I don't want him to be one, either). I am going to give him those guidelines (I forget what they're called on here).

You're not in Plan A, you're in Plan C.

Plan A has a short deadline and the BS is empowered, firm, admirable, calm and headed for the door. That's not you. You are hanging around indefinitely, permitting infidelity to continue indefinitely and sending off signals of desperation.

Plan C enables the affair by rewarding it and it always leads to divorce. I have never seen a case of Plan C where it did not lead to divorce.

Not only will you lose your marriage you will also get very ill and it is unlikely that you will be happy for a number of years. Not only will you lose this marriage but you will also lose yourself, your health and the opportunity to remarry.

I know a number of traumatised BW's who took this path and they aged ten years in one.


It's your choice entirely and the very best of luck.

How am I in Plan C if the affair is over?

Of course he was friendly. You are now on board with his affair which is great news for him.

...and if the affair is over?

It's perfectly possible to Plan A in a day. All you need to do is show a calm face once and promise a good marraige AFTER the affair is ended. You are not in a psoition to do anything till he ends his affair.

A few weeks is the maximum to avoid looking desperate.

Any spouse can set up Plan B in two days and Plan A in the meantime.

again, what if the affair is over? Died a natural death, then he pursued for a while, until he finally ended it, too.

Plan B applies until all conditions for recovery are met. NC letter, transparency - the works.

Until conditions are met the A is an option. If you make yourself an option you are in Plan C.

Your Plan A promises are in the Plan B letter. However you must not hang around in such a desperate fashion.

Affairs 'end' all the time. Then they re-start. It is in their nature to be on again off again. You must protect yourself until he gives cast iron guarantees that he will be faithful.

If you are not interested in drawing that line in the sand you are in Plan C. Plan Aers are most firm about that line.

He is slowly becoming transparent... on his own. (I was allowed to look at his phone for the first time in months, he gave me a date that his work schedule will change, he gave me his hours, little things. I am going to ask for more the next time I see him...)

I mean, we had our issues before the affair, of course. I was abusive, that's not something a person would just want to go back to, or someone that they would want to reconcile with.

and if he doesn't want to head toward recovery with me (due to our relationship issues, even INCLUDING the affair)?

I am sure he does have some potential to return to you. However Plan C will destroy all of this potential by encouraging his affair and making you extremely ill and unattractive.

You are giving the A your blessing and making sure it thrives. You are showing yourself in a desperate unattractive light.

Like I said, if you want Plan C that's your decision. You will need a lot of luck to deal with the misery coming your way.

What exactly is Plan C?

Plan C is remaining in indefinite contact after the WS refuses to meet all of the recovery conditions.

It is not Plan A, where you make it clear you are only around short term - it is not Plan B where the WS misses you.

If you were a man we'd tell you to Plan A for six months. However it is very unattractive for woman to Plan A this long - it makes them look desperate.

Also because men 'compartmentalise' their affairs, men enjoy being friends with their BS while being free to resume the A. Men enjoy Plan A so much they don't want the cake eating to end.

A Husband must be hat in hand remorseful for recovery to work.

We know he is 'saying' otherwise and blaming you. That's typical.

If your reponse to his doing nothing is to stick around, he will continue to do nothing.

Plan C is plan Confusion.

Plan C is ignoring the good doctor's advice.

Plan C is thinking that Dr. Harley's advice doesn't apply, because you know how to fix a marriage better than him. He is, after all, a professional who has saved many marriages, and you are here because you guys are obviously doing things very wrong.

's a general "you", by the way - it never ceases to amaze me how many people come here with terrible marriages and then think they know better how to fix it. They are, after all, experts at wrecking them, how did they suddenly become experts at fixing it?

You are a lawyer, correct?

Surely you have dealt with a client who watched Law & Order and thought they knew the law better than you. After all, they bungled a basic contractual obligation and you only went to law school. Wouldn't that client make you roll your eyes?

This link explains Plan C.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2054947

Dr Harley says:


"What is Plan C?

It is a compromise. I never recommend Plan C. Plan A is you do the best to win your spouse back.

Plan B is you have absolutely nothing to do with the spouse.

Those 2 are the best strategies in an affair. They give you the best shot at saving the marriage.

Plan C, which I don't ever recommend is a compromise is an inbetween state where you are in contact but the contact is not solving the problem.

Plan C makes it more likely you will end up divorced. Some contact but not quality contact. This is a BAD PLAN. It is better to have no contact."

Ah, I understand Plan C now.

During his affair, he did NOT want to be friends with me by any means. In a way, he's more like the woman in part of the relationship stuff.

By no means do I think I know how to fix it better than them, but there are essentially 3 huge problems we had.
1-my dependence and depression (which I am working on, as the harley's suggested, and as I wanted to do anyway),
2- my abuse (which, for that, they suggested love busters, and NOW I am doing it, b/c we have contact, which we didn't have since January 25). and
3- the affair (which is over).

At the end of spending time together yesterday (as a family), I suggested doing it again, and let him choose when. He chose a date. That was NOT something he did during the affair. This was something the harley's suggested before I knew about the affair - making it a point to schedule something after seeing eachother.

In a couple of weeks, we are doing something alone, and I am going to suggest filling out the emotional needs questionaire.