OH!!! Melody has a good point�she is probably trying to see if you know that she was just at OM's house.

I like that text also, but I still think wait a bit to send it. I think you need to mentally distance yourself from this for a little bit so that you can think logically about your own feelings. Like Melody always says, "it's not our ox getting gored" at the moment. It's yours. So YOU need to decide what feels right for you.

The beauty of the forum is that we can be objective when he can't. I apply that saying when onlookers ask a betrayed spouse to unnecessarily endure pain. The last thing I want him to do is go by his feelings. His feelings will mislead him.

I liked the text too.

This sentence I would change:

"know that our marriage could heal, but not while your affair is being put on public display. "

Change it to:

"know that our marriage could heal, but not while your affair is still going on."

Spot On. WD, feelings aren't facts at all. You need to take a break so that you will BE ABLE to continue to be logical in your approach.

Thanks Melody.

When you have your daughter this weekend; she may be fed lies by the ex wife.
The ex wife may be trying to use your daughter as a spy.

Amen!

I thought about phrasing it your way 1st, but felt that the phrase, "Being Put On Public Display" made the affair sound more putrid to any outsiders who find out.

Does that then make her feel more shame and guilt for now knowing that other bystanders can see the wretched behavior for exactly what it is?

Either way, i feel it should not be sent immediately. Let her have her repercussions from how good her affair is making her feel about it now. It is not the fantasy she imagined it would be, is it?

Let her anger simmer down before replying, but maybe tonight or first thing tomorrow may be appropriate.

Now for another thought.....

Do you know her GF at least on a friendly basis prior to this occurring?

Since she has gone through this, do the vets think contacting her would have any purpose and merit?

Side Note: She probably thinks she is being a good friend by rescuing and enabling
your Wife.

LTL

I'm going to send that text learned typed up, Is that a good idea, I know indie was good with it, how about you Mel???

You do not have to be in a hurry to send it.

Be patient and absorb and digest the advice.

LTL

I'll send it tonight or tomorrow morning. she probably will be coming here this weekend.

I actually have to go to my medical section today, I then have to get my daughter, can't wait to see her. I have not once let my feelings get in the way, I use my brain and if I don't know what to say, I don't say anything or I come on here to get the words I need.

Sorry but I don't buy 'the end justifies the means'.

There are many ways to hold your cards close to the vest and not reveal everything you know without lying to someone's face and concocting some outlandish story to get what you want.

Lying is always a bad idea. I am stunned that folks would encourage that on this Christian based board.

WD - you are a grown man. Everything you choose to do today is part of the history that you are writing for yourself and defining you as a person.

WD,

Are you familiar with Sun Tzu's book, "The Art of War"? It is a favorite here on MB because it addresses strategic thinking. If you haven't read it, take a look at it.

AM

20YearHistory,

I do not believe God would condone a lie when, while doing righteousness, it can be avoided.

When the other person is doing evil, there are historical examples of when lies were blessed and rewarded, one being when Rahab lied about the spies being in her home.

I agree with you that lies are not to be used lightly, and aren't a first resort by any means.

But, for example, I believe God would bless a lie about not having a Jew in your home when Hitler's army came to your house during the Holocaust.

Another example of a lie was when Gideon's army made a lot of noise to pretend like they were a huge force and by doing so defeated the enemy.

Absolutely nowhere did I say that the ends justify the means. I am not a believer in "the ends justify the means". I think the means have to be as above board and as water tight as the end in question. I think the false intel is super, and is an active weapon against evil. I think as 'means' go it can't be bettered.

I think you have the pointy finger at the wrong end. The deception and lying is on her end. She is literally driving around in circles trying to decieve her husband as to her whereabouts.

She is not being misled. Her H is not being a false witness. She knows full well that he is keeping close tabs on her, that he disapproves of and that he will fight this A.

That's about as clear a look into his soul as is humanly possible.

We are FIGHTING deception here. Not encouraging it.

It isn't sensible or reasonable to expect him to throw out his shields and protection when she attacks him and asks for details on his intel so she can better deceive him. That is ludicrous.

There was one BS who recovered his M because he told his wife the OM dumped her when he hadn't. Just flat out lied about it to rescue her from the A. He did it before finding MB and he would not have recieved that specific guidance here - but no one could possibly have a problem with that.

He told her later on when she was sane and she was grateful.

If someone was about to use their keys to get into a car drunk and I had a line that would stop them, truthful or not, I would use it.

Sometimes, like with a surprise party, the truth can be revealed at a later date.

False intel is a fantastic MEANS of achieving safety and often guarantees a good end too.

No war general is going to wander over to the enemy camp with all his plans and he will use a ruse de guerre as often as possible.

Anything less is not even trying.

Indie, yes she is being misled. WD is being encouraged to concoct a story about the OM's neighbors etc... He is being encouraged to lie to her. He is absolutely being encouraged to do things that fit perfectly into 'the end justifies the means'.

No where did I say that he shouldn't battle this. No where have I said that he has to be an open book about his techniques of gathering intel.

All I am going to say is that I guess we all have to make the decisions for ourselves. We all have to live with our decisions.

There are no jews in his basement.

I R my M without lying or deceiving. I fought the battle completely above board and have no regrets. I did not resort to her level. Looking back, I know I would not feel good about myself if I would have resorted to stooping to her level.

Regardless of what his WW does, WD is only in control of himself.

WD has to live with his decisions. As do we all in our own lives .

Perhaps it is wrong to mislead her into believing that good people exist and do not support the A. That neighbours are on the lookout.

If so, I'd totally be OK with reckoning that one on my lifelong score sheet.

But I will just repeat your advice that WD has to consider waht type of person he is and that these experiences shape him. I for one think he is doing brilliantly.

Probably because this is not his first rodeo fighting evil and exposing the truth.

Respectfully, i sincerely feel that this current thread jacked discussion would make an excellent topic for it's own thread to discuss further.

It is pertinent to WD, only as far as his own personal ethical boundaries are concerned, yet he is in the all too vulnerable stage that he may leap on any advice given, regardless of previous moral judgments and convictions.

As a personal side note, i feel his methods of snooping should remain covert, without misdirecting attention to anyone in particular as an inferred source. Let WW and POSOM wonder.

I do feel that too much intel was revealed by naming both the overnight at POSOM's home in addition to the stop in at the pharmacy business.

I think only the home overnight visit should have been revealed at one instance.

By revealing 2 separate locations, if i were the suspect, i would seek out a tracking device. If she discovers it, what reaction could be expected?

Would it be beneficial to temporarily remove it now? After all, WD has already confirmed the affair is ongoing with physical proximity occurring.

What does the more seasoned voices of experience feel about that?

LTL

20YearHistory: "There are no jews in his basement."

I hear you. That's why I added another example of how Gideon was instructed by God to use deception (making a lot of noise) to defeat the enemy.

By no means should we just make up lies superfluously. I am not advocating that. I am just saying that God does support strategic tactics that are not always truthful disclosures.

Edited to add: I saw LTL's threadjack suggestion after I submitted my post. I agree this is a side topic. Back to WD......