NewStart,

Did you make amends to the Other mans wife, OMW, or girl friend does she know what happened, .

Also the OM should not be in a position of trust and respect, have you exposed the OM to other parents. He also needs to be reported to the national organization of the martial art he teaches.

God Bless
Gamma

When will you be telling the kids?

I agree with this, but not sure NS is in a position to do it. As an AP herself it might come over as sour grapes and not to be believed. Usually it is the BS doing that sort of exposure. It sounds like he was involved in some minimal exposure to the children...

I just wanted to offer my support NS. You are tackling a hard truth because you see your children hurting. Do let us know how you get on.

Some WS's do instantly 'get it' at the moment of exposure. I have seen that happen before. They are usually then tireless in their efforts to put things right.

Hi NewStart

My exWH's affairs were exposed to our children...they were younger than your children are now. Personally, I would never refer to an affair partner as a gf or bf. One day my children with have a bf or gf and I don't want them to ever associate such a title with anything bad or filthy. I also made it clear that my then WH had committed adultery and had sex with these women. By not making this clear, IMO children could think it was just handholding, kissing, etc. (what a bf/gf would do) and minimize the severity of what happened.

I applaud you for wanting to tell your children the truth. Without the full truth, I have seen more problems created for children who are trying to understand what the heck happened....secrets lead to more secrets, confusion, and resentment the longer they are hidden.

Exposure to children also gives you the opportunity to teach/re-affirm life lessons. My kids and I talked about the consequences of adultery, betrayal, lying, etc...and why you shouldn't do those things to people. We spoke about how to treat people, religion, what making amends and marriage means. I am divorced so obviously my children see that as a consequence...not to mention all the hurt and destroyed relationships they witnessed. Use this opportunity as a learning experience for them...on a large scale.

Welcome to MB.

ETA: The talks I had with my kids were not all at once or a one time conversation but after the initial conversation, there was now opportunity to have further conversations as warranted.

As with all names/titles there are good people and bad people attached to them.
Your logic must mean we can not call people a priest because of the ones that were Chesters.

So if you take away the BF/GF you then leave F buddy, lover. Affair partner then requires to explain what an affair partner is and what is done with the AP.

Then I guess we can't use BF because of all the BF's that beat their GF's.

BF/GF is direct, simple, requires no explanations. Then it also teaches that there are the right way and wrong way to have a BF/GF. Further connecting how to be the right kind of BF/GF.

Talk about a valuable teachable moment without going into great detail.

No that is not my logic. A priest is a priest, a teacher is a teacher or a doctor is a doctor if they have done the work/education to earn that title. Apple and oranges.


There are plenty of people who do not explain much to their children...and of course age is a consideration. I wouldn't recommend calling an AP a F buddy to young children...although it would probably be a lot more accurate than gf/bf. Some posters dislike the AP being referred to as lover, paramour, etc. I don't like calling an AP, gf or bf and explained *my* reasoning. If anyone wants to call an AP, bf or gf, to each his own but I *personally* would not. OP wanted suggestions and I gave mine.





If bf/gf required no explanation then why would anyone have to explain/connect more? This contradicts the very next sentence.

I tend to agree with blackraven and I have heard Dr Harley say not to refer to them as "boyfriend" "girlfriend" because that is an innocent title. They are nothing more than adultery partners. Dr Harley gets beat up all the time for using the word "lover" and he has agreed to stop it. [although I have heard him slip!!! ]

That was the term I was looking for...an innocent title. Yeah...no.

Your discussions are very good. I plan to attempt this visit with my kids this weekend. They have seen the title of the site here as I was trying to register and figure it out. Also they are in tuned to the book title I am reading, His Needs, Her Needs. My daughter says she thinks I am probably getting married now, although I have no man in my life. simple mind. A talk with them will even clear up these questions as well.
I liked the bf/gf way of saying it when it was first mentioned, but then saw other explanations on why not to. I am on the fence on that. Lover or affair partner may raise more in depth questions. To my knowledgable 12 yr old, sex is understood. To my 10 yr she doesn't know what it really means and that is a good thing. Wouldn't you expect the word affair to draw more questions? Can I explain it without saying sex was part of it?
I think telling them soon while my mind is set on this is best. I don't want to even tell my parents or the close friends that know of the affair my plans. I think they might show reservation on speaking up to the kids. This has to be my choice without influence...other than every one here The support here is wonderful. I don't expect all sunshine and happy words 100% because I know I made a bad choice and need to take the consequences that go along with it.
Making a point of it being a learning experience, that I don't wish for them to fall in the same trap in their future, is huge motivation also.
I never imagined a couple years ago that I would be wanting to do this at my own will and this soon.
Fingers crossed everyone... I hope it goes well. As well as it can I guess.

Did you listen to these radio clips? The Harleys discuss this.

I started to last night but it was late and I kept dozing off. Lol I will do that tomorrow when kids are busy with friends. Thanks for the links!

I agree that it's damaging to children for adults to refer to an AP in innocent, benevolent terms, as "girlfriend" or "boyfriend", as though AP had been a peer to you the adult, in your child's preadolescent frame of reference.

The other children they see and meet in their lives can potentially be "boyfriends" or "girlfriends" for them, and that should not be tainted.

Mommies and Daddies don't have boyfriends and girlfriends.

"Person that Mommy/Daddy had an inappropriate relationship with", "an untrue friend", "my former boss at work", "our old neighbor", "a friend I had who turned out to be mean", "a person I was involved with who didn't respect our family"...

Adultery involves adults.

To explain to children what happened to them and their family, with clarity and simplicity (and to preserve innocent context), must not impose on their age-appropriate association with their "girlfriends" or "boyfriends" that they (your kids) will meet and like at school, or soccer, or playing outside, etc.

Terminology for children should not equate your AP (former or present) with any of their formative pre-adolescent relationships with kids of the opposite sex to whom they are attracted. It could only serve to confuse them.

I like the possible descriptions you put in quotes and using a couple would even work in telling them. I don't want to ruin the idea of bf/gf for them in the future so I will be careful regarding those terms.

I can bet that this will put the pieces together and they will understand the events we have been through and the bitterness they still see in their dad.

My ex managed to get the guy fired from his banking position and also as far as we know had his black belt in martial arts compromised. My ex immediately went to the OMW and told her that same day. She said this would be the 4th time he had done that but to my knowledge she is still married to him. Crazy if you ask me.

The word affair or adultery may draw more questions. If it doesn't, you can ask them if they understand what that word (whichever you use) means and bring it up that way. That is how things played out when I spoke to my children.

Exposure #1 took place when my children were 6 and 8. DS8 was preparing for his First Communion when Dday1 happened so The Ten Commandments were fresh in his mind and gave me more of an "in" to bring up adultery. Back then they didn't know the technical specifics of sex but they had their ideas of what it meant and it was enough for them to understand that what their dad and OW1 did was wrong. They did understand that OW had been naked with their dad. They were more upset with OW than WH which is probably typical.

Exposure #2 happened when they were 8 and 10. A little more detail was provided since they were older.

I didn't call either OW an adultery partner, lover, etc. They were told who she was...name, how she knew their dad (work, old classmate), etc. Dad had an affair with (insert). They had met OW2 in person so they knew who I was talking about. SInce your children know who OM is, you can just refer to him as their old karate instruction, Joe Blow.

Don't overthink it too much. My exposure convos lasted maybe five mins, tops. You don't have to go on and on. If they have questions they may ask and if they don't, ask them if they have any and/or tell them if they have any later that they can come talk to you. I would also apologize to them as well.

Good luck!!!

I would suggest you do not use the word "bitter" to describe their dad...ever. Your ex has every reason to be angry with you and OM. You don't need to get into discussion about OM and his wife either...other than describing OM as a dirtbag and his BW as a woman you both hurt, I would not go down that road.

I applaud your husband for reporting the OM to his employer and getting his black belt compromised. If the OM was fired it was because he committed adultery. Most employers do not want to employ liars and cheaters. Your XH did the right thing.

Your affair was the greatest tragedy of your husbands life. It was the worst thing that ever happened to him, so of course he will have hard feelings about it. I would try to show some empathy for him.

I apologize if I come across careless to my XH, sometimes typed conversation doesn't always convey as it is meant. He and I did try to work thru things and after that exposure we actually had the best intimate connection we ever had had. Finding it odd to feel that after the exposure, our counselor said that it does happen that way. All of a sudden all secrets and reasons for holding back are cleared and you can enjoy each other completely again, if there is interest to try to work thru it. It just wasn't possible long term, so we ended it.

Being on this side of the coin, I do not know really how he is feeling but I can imagine it is a terrible feeling. You are right, maybe I need to be more sensitive to the deep wounds and empathize more.

I don't take anyone's advice or thoughts lightly here. I do appreciate the insight you are providing me. Coming here with arms up to fight is silly, people like me stopping by for support, knowing there is fault on my part, cannot expect anyone to high five them. Growing and learning and changing permanently for the future is my goal. Reality sometimes comes in the form of hard truths. I get that.

I don't plan to speak of the OM's life or wife, just to tell who he was. His daughter was a babysitter to my kids as well. The involvement I allowed of that guy into our family life is disheartening to think of.

NS, what stopped you and your H from trying to reconcile? Did you try?

We did try. We went to a marriage counselor for a couple months. He told me he knew I had changed my way and would probably make the best wife in the future. But he kept having triggers that would bring up reminders. He would see a vehicle like the OM had and would get angry again. He would drive by the bank he worked at and would be back to ground zero. He told me he never knew what or when it might happen and when it did he would explode. All along, before the split or even the affair, he seemed to have two sides to him and could flip instantaneously, without warning.
A long time family friend of ours, 75 yrs old and married for 50+ said the only way to move forward, together or apart, would be for my XH to forgive me. Not for my sake but for his own self. I don't know the truth to that but my H said he would never be able to forgive me for that. I eventually didn't take the offers to "meet for lunch" any more as it was not doing anything for us other than satisfying the intimate needs. I had that with the OM and it left me feeling empty and used and had no desire to continue that same bad feeling with my H. And at the same time he was hanging out with younger girls in another crowd of people. I was done with that part of life. Never again would i share relationships with others. I vow to have only one person in my life when that right person comes along.

Well, my talk didn't happen today...tomorrow it will be....

Read what Dr. Harley says about forgiveness.
What is Just Compensation?