I've been on here before, when husband was working out of town for a long time which created problems. This is a new username because that thread was about snooping etc. We are past that and he's been home for over a year now, which is good. However, we have problems that need addressed. He has agreed to use Dr. H's plan to help us, but we have some problems with getting started.

He is afraid that if we fill out the Lovebusters questionnaire, that it will make things worse. He feels I am so defensive that he can't tell me anything that bothers him without getting really upset. I have to say, he is somewhat right. I think I am in withdrawal and I don't care all that much about his feelings. Deep down, I do, but on some level I just don't want to hear anything. Plus I'm extremely sensitive (he thinks, to a fault) and was verbally abused as a child, so it's hard for me to hear his tone of voice sometimes.

Earlier today, he asked me a question about a bill I had paid. I answered, but not in the way he wanted. He asked "when did you pay this" and I answered "I paid it a day or two late". He then said he didn't ask me that, he asked me when I paid it. I didn't know the exact date in my head, so I just gave a general answer. That wasn't what he wanted.
This is an example of ONGOING problems we have. He is an engineer, a very good one, and expects specifics. I am a general type thinker, getting close is often good enough as long as I know it's fine and already handled. This drives him crazy.

This particular issue isn't that important, but I did get really upset because he kept pushing and said "this is an example of how we don't communicate, you didn't answer what I asked." That really made me mad because I didn't like his tone of voice. I told him to just quit and even yelled "shut up" which I haven't done in a long time. I have been doing better on eliminating my Love Busters, and rarely have been a yeller, but I didn't do well this time!

The other issue is that I feel very few of my ENs are being met and thus the withdrawal. I feel his IB and lack of affection have caused me to withdraw, along with is tone of voice much of the time. He feels it's not about his tone of voice. He thinks it's just any type of perceived criticism, that I just cannot handle it.

My health is also really bad. I wonder if we can even meet the 15-20 hrs of UA if we tried. I am so exhausted all the time. Thyroid issues, depression, menopause, fibromyalgia all going on at once. I drag myself to my one day of work per week, and try to get done what I must for the family. We have 5 kids still living at home and I homeschool. I'm just so tired. I am continuing to pursue help from my Dr., but so far not much has helped.

Should we start with the LB questionnaire? How should we handle even starting to talk about it?

Nearly30yrs,

Thank you for sharing and welcome back to Marriage Builders.

As you already know you need to go through theLB questionnaire.

But, to help frame the conversation you guys may want to use the Marital Negotiation Worksheet first.

Ask you husband if he would be ok with you guys going through LB questionnaire in that frame work.

If you go through dealing with the EN first you will not gain as much ground if LB are still happening.

It's like trying to build a house while someone is throwing bombs at it. For every love unit you deposit in the Love Bank when you meet a EN you lose 3, 4, or 5 with a LB.

I hope that helped and good luck.

OK so we do the questionnaire have a meeting to discuss them, implement them (hopefully) then how do we measure whether it's working? How do we point out if one happens?

Have you read Love Busters?

If you haven't read it it would be a good Idea for both of you to read it (especially the first 5 chapters).

Until then you need to both agree to allow each other to hold the other accountable.

The first Love Buster has to be tracked by the person it is affecting.

For example if you demand something from your husband he is suppose to keep track of that. When he share it with you in the future you have to take his assessment as fact, even if you didn't intend it to be.

If your husband is dishonest or participating in independent behavior (,unless it's obvious to you) has to be track by him because he is the only that would know (most of the time).

Dr H recommends dishonest or participating in independent behavior to be tracked daily by the offending spouse.

Is he still viewing porn?

Last I asked him he said he was not. He knows it bothers me.

Do you snoop to verify that he is no longer watching pornography?

So we keep track of these things and then talk about it in the future? Not when it is happening? His main IB is golf which I resent because it has taken so much of his time over the years and also just staying in his office a lot. Not talking or participating w the family or me as much as I'd like. Those are both obvious to me, but I wouldn't be the one tracking it?

No I haven't snooped lately.

The cornerstone of Dr. Harley's programs is the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) - Never do anything without enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

For example, if you do not enthusiastically agree to his golfing or long hours at the office, he should stop the offensive behavior under the POJA.

Are you familiar with the POJA? Have you both agreed to follow it?

As for the snooping, I think you should do so quietly

Yes I'm familiar w POJA. I don't know if he'll be willing to give up golf. He absolutely loves it and he doesn't see what we could do together that is fun because I'm always so exhausted. I mean really, really tired. We do go on dates out to eat about once a week. But he has said that he thinks 15 hrs/week is way too much to expect with our large family and my health issues.

The staying in the office issue is here in our home. He is currently unemployed and stays in there most of the time. He says it's because he upsets me if he's around too much, as I used to feel he talked too mean to the kids and me. He doesn't yell, he just has a tone of voice and a way of questioning that makes ppl feel criticized.

Are you seeing your doctor for your exhaustion?

Have you ever tried golf?

I'm seeing multiple Drs. for exhaustion. Sleep study is next. I have a thyroid issue that they say should correct itself. Trying a new antidepressant. On natural hormones for menopause. Trying new vitamins.

I've tried golf but I'm not too good and don't love it. Plus it sounds too tiring right now. Dh doesn't really like golfing w me as he likes the competitive aspects of it w his friends. I'm no challenge.

I think you should focus on the POJA.
Others can come along and advise you but I think that is the cornerstone you should focus on, while having 15-20 hours a week of UA time (without kids present, out of the house)

That's your marriage's problem: He is doing what he finds most enjoyable (golf) without you.
If he was doing a recreational activity with you, you would be making love bank deposits together.

I udnerstand competition. I am a runner, I usually am in the top 10% of finishers, sometimes I am third place in local races. BUT...If i was married...I would NOT spend this time unless my wife was somehow involved and in agreement...because I would want to make love bank deposits and you dont do it with friends or by yourself, whether running or hitting a ball.

Yes I told him that today. I said I'm jealous of golf because all your fun is with those guys. I feel left out and always have.

He feels my LB (I guess it would fall under an annoying habit) of my not communicating well with him is our biggest problem since it bothers him the most. I need to work on slowing down and really listening. I'm in a habit of rushing through conversations w him because I don't enjoy them. I'm trying to avoid feeling put down or inadequate because I never seem to say things right. That's one reason I was focusing on the LB issues first. But I do think spending quality time together would help too.

Before I discovered Dr. Harley and changed my philosophy on marriage, I didn't care about how my wife felt about my running.
I felt that since she wasn't willing to have sex with me, I would develop an independent lifestyle and regarded her complaints as nagging.

Your husband has similar views, I think based on your description.

He may. He complains sometimes about sex because it's either not often enough (usually at least twice a week) or I'm just doing it for him. I try to meet his needs in this dept but it is difficult w hormonal changes going on coupled with not feeling cared for. Lack of affection and conversation takes its toll.