It would take me as long to look at a table of contents, as it would to type a text describing my inability to do that task.

NSL



That was my first thought, too. But is it a DJ?

I need advice.

My H did call me at 7 tonight like he said he would. We didn't have long to talk, my fault. I had been asked to substitute for a Bunco game and didn't think about the time factor before I agreed. He wasn't upset, just said to call him back by 10:30. But we did agree in that short conversation to read chapter 1 in the book tonight and discuss it tomorrow night.

I called him a little after 10. At the end of our conversation, I confirmed the plan was still to read chapter 1 tonight and discuss it tomorrow night. He said he was already on chapter 3 or 4. I said that wasn't the plan. We were supposed to read it together. We're not supposed to get ahead of each other. He said he didn't actually read 3 chapters, there are highlighted sections in chapter 1 and he read 3 of those. I said ok, then asked if he still wanted to read the entire first chapter tonight? Or did he want me to stop after I read those 3 highlighted parts he'd already read? He said the chapters were short, so he wanted to read chapters 1 and 2 tonight and discuss both tomorrow. This was fine with me, so I agreed.

I think he forgot since both our kindles are on the same account, I can tell which the furthest read location is on his. He read almost through chapter 3.

He is willingly reading the book, which I'm happy about. But he is doing it independently of me, not sticking to our agreement and being dishonest with me about it, which I am not happy about. Since his IB and this kind of dishonesty (tell me what he thinks I want to hear) are my main complaints in our marriage, this is a big love buster for me.

I stuck with the plan and stopped reading when I finished chapter 2.

What should I do?

I dont know the answer to this.
I am not well versed in Dr. Harley's specific approaches to this.

However, my initial thought is that it is very encouraging that your husband is reading the book!

Rome wasnt built in a day and your marriage will take time to build but I think many people would be glad to have a spouse that has at least taken the first step of reading Dr. Harley's book!

Tamak

right down the IB and dishonesty for a safer time to talk to him about it. He is lying to please you and while have a hard time dealing with the fact it made you unhappy.

Get more advice from Steve but I think when you are reading the chapter on Honesty and Openness it maybe a good time to bring this up.

The fact that he has been reading some much encouraging because it means he is find value in what he is reading and I would not like him to connect any negative feels to this book.

It sound like you did a great job redirecting him though. Just be aware of demands, disrespectful judgements and agree outbursts while you do it (which I didn't hear from what you described so keep it up).

JN & life4799





Thank you both. I don't want to do something that will change his willingness to read the book. If I'm understanding correctly, you both think my main focus should be on the positive...that he is reading the book and reading ahead is a good indicator he is interested in what he is reading.



I'm wondering if I should call for an apt with SH about this or wait and see how it goes tonight when he calls me. I like your suggestion to write it down and bring it up when we get to the H&O chapter.



Thank you. I'm treading very carefully with my H right now, afraid the wrong word or action will end his willing participation, while being honest with him at the same time, so I don't fall back to my pattern of avoidance and distance. Its reassuring to hear I handled it ok last night.

If you are able to speak to or email SH I would because he has spoken to your H and he may have some insight that we don't.

life4799



I haven't tried to talk to SH, yet, because my H called me yesterday afternoon and we made a date to discuss chapters 1 and 2 last night. I decided to take ya'lls advice and focus on this big positive, instead of the minor negative.

The negative is not minor just not productive to deal with right now. And, happy to hear you guys are still moving forward.

Our discussion on Chapter 1 and 2 went really well last night. We both found things we could relate to on a personal level in our marriage. For example, we recognized that we've followed the pattern of the man making most of the decisions and the wife submitting to his authority. We discussed how we had both been raised that this was the way things were supposed to be in marriage. He said he was raised that it wasn't that women weren't capable of making good decisions, but it was the man's responsibility to make them and the responsibility of the outcome fell solely on his shoulders. I'd had no idea and found this information very enlightening.

As a result of the above, we agreed this happensa lot in our marriage:



Even though I submit, I feel my POV is being dismissed, which I resent.

My resentment builds, till I'm not feeling submissive next time something comes up - big or small. I voice my POV more assertively. Which brings us to this point:






I told my husband the above is where I'm at. He said he knows that and that's why we're doing this, so we can learn to negotiate correctly. He said he wanted us to learn to negotiate for joint agreement. I said I want that too.

When we got to the part about a common goal, we discovered our perspectives were different on what Dr. Harley meant by win-win. He said the example given about a political negotiator's method of "Each party has to come away a little bit happy and a little bit mad" was what we needed to strive for, only seeking more happy than mad for both of us. I said I agreed with Dr. Harley's statement "Spouses who try to resolve their conflicts with that goal in mind find that they almost immediately forget about the fact that the resolution made them "a little bit happy" and tend to remember forever how it made them "a little bit mad." Long-term resentment is a problem that almost every married couple experiences when conflicts are not resolved the right way -- with both spouses happy with the outcome." He said he agreed that the best solution would be for both of us to be happy with the outcome, but there would be times when we had to accept " a little bit mad" to reach an agreement that worked for us both.

I told him I had a feeling he was thinking about his job, when he said this. That ultimately, he believed I was going to have accept being "a little bit mad" because he wasn't willing to negotiate a win-win we could both be 100% happy about. He said that wasn't what he meant at all, in fact when we learned how to negotiate the right way, he believed we would have some big decisions to make about me possibly getting a job and changes in our lifestyle so his changing jobs would be possible.

This is huge! I know we're not near ready for that big a discussion yet, but the fact that he is thinking along those lines tells me he really is taking this seriously and not just going through the motions to humor me.

We found the information on the differences between men and women's brains really fascinating and eye opening. The part where Dr. Harley says, "To joke about the way men and women view life differently is to ignore their most valuable asset --their differences." hit home with us both. We are guilty of teasing each other about the 'Venus vs. Mars' thing all the time. This had become our fallback when we weren't arguing, just having a lighthearted discussion but disagreed with each other's perspective. We would agree to disagree because we weren't even on the same planet, so there was no way for us to get to the same page.

We agreed we want to learn to understand and appreciate the differences in the way we think and use those differences to our mutual advantage.

Another 'biggie' we realized we both do is capitulate. Dr. Harley nailed how I have felt many times with this example: " My husband frequently "gives in" and lets me have my way, but I know that he's not really on board with it. I like when I get my way, but don't always feel good about it afterward. How do I get him to open up to me more about how he really feels? This woman's husband may have agreed to do what made her happy because he cared about her and wanted her to be happy. She probably does the same for him every once in a while. They both had an instinct to care for each other at all costs, even if the cost is their own happiness."

My husband said this statement nailed it for him, "When there is a conflict of opinion, these husbands capitulate to maintain peace."

This morning we discussed Chapter 3. Our discussion about the sacrificing section was another eye opener for me. I had always felt like I did most of the sacrificing because of his job and because he makes most of the decisions unilaterally, he got his way most of the time, with little regard to how I felt or what I wanted. He told me he has built up resentment over sacrifices he's made. I was dumbstruck. I honestly didn't think he'd made any sacrifices. I told him I would like to know what they are, because I didn't know he'd made them. He said the main one was 2 part: (1) going to see my family when what he really wanted to do was stay home after being away for work and (2) going to see my family, when he wanted to go see his - primarily his Dad. We ultimately decided this was a topic we needed to table till we were better at negotiating and could do so in person because, where we are now, it will be a difficult one for us to find a win-win.

We did agree we both need to stop sacrificing for each other, especially in secret, because we recognize, "Sacrifice usually prevents openness in marriage." "...sacrifice doesn't lead to long-term solutions to marital problems." And, "When one spouse's gain is at the other spouse's voluntary loss, what was voluntary one day easily translates into an expectation that's demanded the next."

We agreed we've both fallen into the pattern of expected reciprocation for our sacrifices. Which builds resentment when our expectations aren't met. We both have allot of these built up resentments.

Before we tabled the family visitation issue, we discussed the possibility that we may need to negotiate a "...joint sacrifice to accomplish a goal of mutual value." We decided we weren't even close to understanding how to properly negotiate that, which is why we tabled it for now.

Just the fact we were able to discuss it as far as we did and come to an agreement that we weren't ready to go there, yet, is amazing.

My husband has opened up more to me and I have learned more about how he really feels in these 2 discussions about this book, than in all our discussions combined to this point. And doing it this way, sharing how we each personalize what we read, makes it feel safe. For me, its like I'm outside myself, so I can discuss these things intellectually, instead of emotionally.

I can't speak for my H, but I look forward to reading each chapter and discussing it with him. I get the feeling he feels the same, based on the enthusiasm he exhibited to make a plan for reading and discussing chapter 4.

In just a few short days and chapters, I have gone from dreading awkward discussions about difficult subjects with my H to anticipating our 'phone dates' as I have started thinking of them.

life4799



Important distinction, thanks. I shouldn't have minimized it, just trying to keep it in perspective in the overall big picture.

Thank you

Wow, that is a tremendous burden to bear. Really to some extent you need to let the burden of this decision be on him, not you. If you have to fear that every wrong word will cause him to quit, that is just too much pressure. Let him now that you need this from him, as every woman needs this from her husband. You need him to negotiate a happy lifestyle with you and here in these materials is some help for him to do so.

markos



I do feel a lot of pressure. I've put it on myself. I don't blame my husband for that. But we had a set back tonight and I'm wondering if it was because I have been holding myself in check so tightly.

I got upset because I didn't hear from him for 11 hours today, when my understanding was that we were going to have our nightly phone date sooner than that. I finally sent him a text that I was feeling forgotten. He called me and said he'd been waiting for my call. Apparently, he'd sent me a text 10 minutes before I sent mine to him, telling me to call him whenever I had a chance. I never got the text. That does happen sometimes because our phone signal is very spotty where we live and its spotty at some of his work locations.

He asked me about my day and I had made a list of things I didn't want to forget to tell him. Sometimes, because we go for long stretches between calls or texts, I forget to tell him things and he feels left out of the loop. Anyway, I asked him about an invoice that I wasn't showing had been paid. He said he was pretty sure he had the check stub where it had been paid in his computer bag. I asked him to make sure. He said he was pretty sure. I told him I needed to know absolutely, so to check when he had a chance. He said he would go check right then so I could quit being so anxious about it. That offended me. He's had a history of accusing me of overreactions due to female issues or emotions.

I got upset and emotional. Though it wasn't his fault I didn't get his text, I was hurt that it had taken him so long to send it. Add to that the anxious comment and I felt like it was deja vu of so many past conversations that left me feeling sad and disconnected from him. I wanted a chance to get my emotions under control and think clearly before I said something I would regret. I told him I was upset and it wasn't a good idea for me to talk right then. I needed to go and calm down then I would call him back. He didn't want me to get off the phone. He kept pushing me to talk to him and let him apologize. I told him I just needed to calm down, I was upset. I couldn't talk right then. He kept pushing, and I was getting more upset with every word he said. I finally told him I'm sorry I can't talk to you anymore right now and hung up.

He called me right back. I didn't want to answer because I knew he would push me to hear him out, which would upset me more because he was disrespecting me by pushing me when I clearly said I needed to calm down first. But I couldn't just not answer. That would be disrespectful of me. So I answered. He apologized and I believed he was sincere, but I was too upset and feeling too disrespected to be able to truly accept his apology. I said thank you, but I was upset and angry. I was angry that his job was keeping him from getting the sleep he needed, angry his job kept him from being able to send me even a short text earlier in the day letting me know it might be late before he could call me and I was angry with him for forcing what he wanted on me without any regard for what I needed. He apologized and said I was right, he did do that he would let me go, but asked if he could call me in the morning.

I have had time to calm down and I'm not mad any more. I feel guilt for getting so upset and annoyance that he didn't give me the time I needed to calm down.

I'm not doing a very good job walking this tight rope. I hope we will get to a point I won't feel the need to do it anymore. Till then, I don't know how else to do this...

Maybe you should table the things that make you emotional to bring up until you can run it by Steve or write it down to talk later? Since these phone conversations are important to you spend the time talking about enjoyable things.

When my H was deployed and we were having a tough time DR. Harley told me to spend the time talking about enjoyable things and to practice POJA over small things. I can't tell you how much that helped us get through a tough time apart.

When is your next call with Steve?

BH



Thank you for the suggestion. Its nice to know it worked for a couple that dealt with separation. I can't imagine how hard it was for you being the wife of a military man. I struggle with him gone 2 to 3 weeks at a time. I don't know how you did it when your husband was deployed....But you and your husband found a way to make it work? You're still together and happy?



He said when my husband comes back home. He comes home next Thursday, but our youngest daughter is graduating Friday, my parents will be here till Saturday afternoon, after my parents head home, my H and I are meeting 2 other couples in Ruidoso for a much needed fun weekend, we're leaving from there Monday to go see my parents and Granny - who is 98 and can't come with my parents to graduation, we'll come back home Tuesday. I'm going to see if we can get an appointment with Steve that week after we get back home.

Update...

Things have been going good between my H and I. We're still reading the book and discussing as often as his job will allow and we're still having phone dates twice a day - morning and night. We are currently on Chapter 7. I am enjoying the book and very glad Steve recommended it. I'm learning allot. My husband said he is too. Its been a huge eye opener to me just how many things I've been doing on my end that added to our communication issues and my husband's reluctance to want to discuss things with me. I have been blaming him, and his job, for most of our issues. One thing in particular is my habit to start out angry or with a negative attitude when an issue comes up. My husband enjoyed the part in the book where Dr. Harley says its important to keep a smile on your face during a conflict. He said I have to smile at him, no matter how mad he made me Lol.

We already had our first POJA . It started out as an example my husband was giving me. I've always wanted to do a murder mystery weekend at a hotel not far from where we live. They only do it twice a year. My husband had told me he wanted me to book it the next time his days off lined up. We were discussing a part in the book about how sometimes spouses interests are not the same and how most couples end up negotiating a win-lose where one sacrifices so the other gets what they want. He said it was like the murder mystery thing. He knew I wanted to do it, but the truth was it would bore him to tears. I said then lets choose something else that we would both enjoy. He said he didn't think it was fair for me not to get to do it. I told him I wouldn't enjoy it if he didn't, because even if he pretended to for my sake, I could tell when he wasn't happy about doing something I wanted to do and that takes the fun out of it for me because I end up feeling guilty. I said I would rather we do something we would both enjoy and have a great time together, then do that and both be miserable. He suggested he do some checking in a nearby town for things he would enjoy doing that I wouldn't and I check out the time frame for the actual murder mystery 'act' itself. He said we could stay in that hotel, he would do something he enjoys while I'm doing the mystery deal, then we'd come together in the evening for dinner and share our experiences with each other. I loved this idea! I was really proud of us

We still have a long road ahead of us and we're both aware of it. But we are committed to traveling it together. The phone dates have gone a long way to helping me feel connected to him while he's at work, which helps my attitude toward him, which makes him feel more comfortable about opening up to me, which makes me feel more connected to him and safe to open up more to him....etc.

We haven't discussed anything major or real important yet. We've agreed to put those on hold till we both feel more comfortable with the negotiating thing. There is very important topic I need to discuss with him that I have been nervous to bring up. Our middle daughter came to me the other day and asked for my help and discretion. She has anger issues and I've been trying to get her to seek help for it for a long time. I forced her to go to counseling when she was still in High School a couple years ago, because I just couldn't handle living with her AOs anymore. It helped, till she decided she didn't need it anymore and refused to participate even if I made her go. She told me the other night, her AOs have gotten to the point of physically throwing things at her fianc�. She said she can't control her temper any more when she gets mad and realizes she needs help. She asked me to help her find a good group for anger management and to not say anything to my husband. She said she knew he would hug her and joke it off and make it too easy for her to convince herself she didn't have a problem after all. That has been his pattern, so I could understand her reluctance for him to know. But I was very uncomfortable keeping it from him. I don't keep secrets from my husband. I had a session with Steve the day after she asked me to do this. I asked his advice. He told me to tell her I was uncomfortable keeping secrets from my husband and let her decide how much she was comfortable with him knowing. He told me when I told my H to make sure he understood how important it was not to try to hug and joke it away with her. That he needs to take this seriously, so she will get the help she needs.

That was 3 days ago. I did finally talk to my daughter today. She understands and gave me a reasonable amount of leeway on what I can tell him. He was exhausted when I talked to him tonight, so I didn't say anything. It was an easy copout. I chickened out. This will be an important discussion. Our first, since starting the book and counseling with SH. I started to tell him and then just couldn't get the words out...

Not sure what I'm looking for by posting about this. Its a big weight and I guess I just needed to say it out loud in some form and this is the only place I feel comfortable doing it...till I get the courage to tell my husband.

Tamak,

Thank you for the update. I am (and I'm sure others are as well), very excited to hear your progress. I have personally seen a few marriages go through this program and they are still sickly in love with each other years later but it is always encouraging to watch it happen. I know your conversation with your husband will go great and will add deposits into both accounts and also into your daughter's account. Please continue the good work you are doing and I look forward to more updates.

life4799



I really appreciate your encouragement! Its great to hear that you know of other couples who are still doing great after going through this book . And Its good to hear you think we're doing good enough that we can handle the discussion about my daughter in the right way. I think that is what I was looking for by posting about it, without realizing it, someone to tell me whether or not they think we are ready for a discussion this important. My husband is going to call me in about an hour. I'm going to talk to him about it then. Still nervous, but I feel a little more confident than I did last night.

Let you know how it goes

The discussion about our daughter's anger issues went well with my husband. I explained to him how nervous I was about broaching such an important discussion so early in our learning new strategies. He made it very easy to talk to him about it. I was very grateful . He also said he would help me find her a good counselor or anger management group. So I don't feel like I'm carrying the weight by myself anymore. This is huge! I got so used to just taking care of everything myself and him leaving it all to me. I like this teamwork system much better

I'm very proud of you having the conversation. These posts are good reminders of how much that man loves you. Incredible.