MSM, we don't need that amount of detail to understand your situation. Very few people have the time to read such a long, superfluous post. You would get a lot more help if you summarized your story to 3 very short paragraphs. We don't need your backstory.

She doesn't know yet. We spoke to night and her main request is that I edify her more. I totally get this and I want to make sure I edify her as she has needs. The tough part is when she is deliberately doing things that are harmful to the marriage it makes it difficult to be edifying during those times... BUT I MUST FIND A WAY to do that regardless.

I doubt she would post as she is more of a surface type of person... meaning she doesn't like to talk intimately much or deeply about things... one of those just wanna have laughing good fun time... avoids conflict or difficult discussions. So I can't see her willing to post... but maybe she would be willing.

We are only getting 1 maybe 2 hours. I want the 15 hours mentioned in the book, but with kids at 4,6,9 I don't see that number of hours possible, but I believe we should be able to do at least half. Our counselor has requested we take 1 hour after kids in bed for time with just the two of us... then if we still have time take the remaining time before bed to take care of chores together. Unfortunately my wife goes to a book almost every night instead. Only once a week this request might take place. It makes me feel like she is resistant to growing and spending time together.

What are her complaints about me? I'll tell you what she has shared as I have asked many times what does she need and what can I do.

- If we have a discussion if she wants to stop it she wants it stopped. This is difficult as she sometimes stops it within 3 minutes and nothing negative has been said and nothing hateful and very calm. She doesn't like conflict so she stops it. Now I usually have tried to continue it, but I have altered this and have succeeded about 50% of the time to stop immediately, about 40% of the time stop it shortly after and well... I have failed a few times. It is difficult to try and work through an issue only to get unwillingness.

- She said she wants to be edified. I want to do this and to be honest am struggling with how I can edify with all of the difficulties and things that take place.

- If she has done something wrong and apologizes she wants it to be dropped immediately. If she is truly apologizing and it really is from the heart it is much easier to except and move on pretty quickly, but if it is an apology with a "but" and blame the other person added to it makes it difficult to easily except as sincere.

- She doesn't like to hear about a past issue over again. I agree... but if that same pattern still exists it is hard to not reference the pattern as a whole. But I sincerely don't want to bring up past things... especially if there was an apology and we resolved it. Actually if it is a resolved situation I am not sure I have brought it back up. Only the pattern based things does it come up again.

- She wants my tone to be different. Some how my tone comes across wrong. I try my best to share truthfully and try to articulate, but I must come across sounding judgmental or angry or something. I am actively and continually looking at this. I am meeting with our Pastor and his Wife semi weekly to improve the way I respond and react to things.

- When I am hurt I get very quiet. Some may call it a silent treatment or something of that nature. And to be honest... it probably is something like that. I am hurt... I am angry... and I struggle to just act like nothing just happened when something hurtful or negative may have just happened.

There are probably more... but I have to think a little more on what they are.

Oh... too detailed! I think that might bring up a chuckle from a couple of you here.

There are no boundary issues on my side... I help with all the housework... I help with the kids in a big way... I say yes to 99% of her requests... regardless to what it is. I really try to be a good husband... but obviously I am failing in certain respects and need to strengthen those ares.

I will try to go back and shorten it. Oops... it won't let me go back to them to edit... guess they post is too old now. Sorry.

Prisca,

The main consultant guy moved on to a new project. I know there have been a few emails back and forth (I have not seen them), but she said they were more professional in nature and not personal like the earlier ones.

The secondary guy helps out on project remotely at times and she has to communicate with him at times... she says that she has kept it professional.

The timing of the relationships subsiding timed with them leaving and going back to their remote offices. So who knows what would have happened if they continued coming into town every week.

She says there is no emailing back and forth. I could ask her to show me her email, but I am trying to provide trust as she has done somethings (agreement and adjustments in relationships) that deserve some rebuilding of trust.

Yes... I believe she has very poor boundaries. She will argue that we get the same end result, but we have a different path. My path is to have a hedge of protection by using boundaries... my wife will say she doesn't need a boundary... if they cross the line she will say something. But her line is blatant sexual advance. And in general I do believe if someone becomes blatantly sexual she will say something... but it is all those gray areas of teasing, flirtiness, and overall closeness that I find risky... and if our marriage is not doing well like ours then the risk becomes much greater not have some more protective boundaries.

In regards to was it ever exposed. She absolutely denies and emotional affair. She said she had not lust or sexual desires at all. Now I have researched many sites on what an emotional affair is and there are those that say it must involve lust and then there are those that say it does not have to involve lust. I believe the second type happened, but she still denies it to this day and says she did nothing wrong, but lie to me. This is hard to get past for me. But I don't really have a choice... I can let this eat at me forever or move past it.

It doesn't matter what she says. The M.O. of a wayward is to deny deny and deny some more. The emails/texts you shared with us are not just indicative of "poor boundaries" but red flags that she is either in an affair or actively seeking an affair.

Is she being transparent? Meaning, do you have access to passwords to her email/FB and also are you able to look at her phone at any time or is there a password lock on it? Do you have access to her phone records?

It doesn't matter if she denies it! You don't need her permission to let known what she had done.

Her behavior will not change if the affair is never exposed. There will be another one.

You rebuild trust with transparency. Without transparency, trust is impossible and dangerous.

You need access to all her accounts.

Do not trust her for one minute. Get access to those emails and accounts.

All contact with these men must stop. Will she end contact?

We have 7 kids, ages 9, 8, 7, 7, 5, 4 and 6 weeks. I don't buy that you can't have 15 hours because of the kids.

The thing is, only getting half of the 15 hours is not going to be enough. One hour each evening after the kids are in bed is not going to be enough. Wives need at LEAST 15 hours of undivided attention from their husbands in order to be in love. Anything less will not do it.

Read: What is an Affair?

You realize that your W has a SSL (secret second life), right? Otherwise you would have known about everything that was happening with those male coworkers without needing to find those emails.

The fact that your W feels "untrusted" and doesn't like to answer your questions is indicative of the fact that she is still clinging to her SSL. Look:


Some of the other language you use in your other posts about "needing to trust" has BIG RED FLAG written all over it....that you are being gaslit by your W. You should be snooping on her vs grilling her and hoping she will be honest with you about her day to day interactions with these men.

My sister and BIL check each other's phones and FB accounts out all the time. They don't even use words like 'trust' with each other. They have never had any issue of infidelity in their marriage. They have nothing to hide so it doesn't bother either of them.

People who are hiding things are the ones who want their spouses to "trust" them and not check up on them. This is a very theme we see over and over and over again on these forums. A spouse who is complaining about needing to be trusted is the one who needs to be checked up on the most.

You are using the language of a person who has been gaslit. Big time.

Please read.Please Explain Gaslighting

TRUST is a feeling, a reflex, that you get when your spouse is being open and honest. It's not something you do. It's not an uncaring 'do what you want in secret' policy. That would involve pretending you have no feelings at all! Most women would view such a disinterested attitude as most uncaring and unprotective.

Not your wife though. An uncaring attitude from you gives her free reign to explore more passionate and falsely purported caring from other men. She's already proven herself untrustworthy with one affair. Which she continues to lie about!

I cannot understand why you are getting into debates with her which only force her to repeat lies and keeps her stuck in dishonesty. Just snoop. You can then address the dishonesty based on what you find.

Your counsellor is also a buffoon. One hour after the kids are in bed? Who falls in love like that!?

It's pretty obvious you've been bullied into a sick version of trust by a wife who is addicted to admiration. Your counsellor joined in the bullying, because like most clueless people they just follow the lead of the strongest personality in the room.

That's why you came on here rambling and over - explaining. You've been bullied into thinking that caring about your wife is unnatural and that your feelings are abnormal.

]

Also

I'm going to repeat three key parts of Dr Harley's words for you:

I have access to all accounts other than her work email. She showed me the work emails back in 2013, but the last time I went to check she was very upset because she works for a hospital with HIPPA rules... meaning if she allows someone to see the emails that could have medical information in them she could lose her job. Here is why she was upset...

The last time I looked at them in 2013 I forwarded copies of them to myself as proof of a pattern and she was upset (NOT about me seeing them), but about me forwarding them out as some did have medical info and she could get fired if they audited and saw that. Which is why I told her that I would not do it that way again, but if I wanted to see it then I would expect her to show it to me. At the time she did indicated she would not due to HIPPA rules. This was also during a heated time so if I really pushed it she may be willing to pull them up now.

Now don't forget... she allowed me to see the emails the first time without issue and if there had been anything (she believed) was wrong she would have probably hid it. Nothing in the emails would indicate physical affair and to be honest not directly emotional... just a part of a pattern of a friendship that was building between my wife and 2 other men (with 1 more than the other). I obviously think this to be inappropriate in my marriage.

The hospital also purges email every 3 months... I am sure it is stored somewhere, but she doesn't have access to it after 3 months.

I know the general reaction by most is to say she at the minimum had an emotional affair. My wife is not generally wired that way... but is definitely more wired to just be friendly with everyone... but does tend to lean to men. Which leads to the boundary issues for me.

I am not a naive person... I have a difficult time trusting as it is... so I never just assume things... I look at the whole set of the data and the person.

These guys are no longer in town... they work 6 states away. I can't say they will never be back down for a future project, but for now they are not coming to town.

I have checked her personal phone / personal email and there are no phone calls or emails or texts to them... but I know you can delete those as well.

The only thing I can't check is her work stuff and she has to be willing to let me see it. Again I think she would now if I pushed for it.

I know everyone will immediately say she is hiding something. My un-trusting nature immediately feels this way as well. Maybe I'll bring it up with counselor today... but he is also encouraging trust.

He feels there definitely was a friendship between my wife and the two men, but he has not seen any direct evidence there was a physical affair and he doesn't classify anything as an emotional affair... he sees the definition as one dealing with physical desire and not just friendship. I believe he saw it as a risky relationship with weak boundaries, but he didn't believe it to be an affair. He has the benefit of also talking with her one on one... and maybe he would not tell me what she has said due to patient / doctor relationship, but I would not imagine he would lie and indicate he does not believe an affair (emotional by his definition or otherwise) took place.

Have you seen this?
The Risk of Opposite-sex Friendships in Marriage